GATO! (It has begun)

[matthewnimmo]

Thanks David! Oh, btw, i got looking into that rust link you sent. I found this as well; but they are based out of Texas (little closer than the other place). You can get different metal paints along with the patinas for your "rustings/greenings/etc"

1) http://www.shop.brickintheyard.com/M...-8-Oz-MC-B.htm - Online store
2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T52OZZXZVYo - youtube demo of the stuff (guy is rusting drywall LOL).

Thought on this stuff anyone?

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

It'll be fine. He sold you good stuff.

David

[matthewnimmo]

Thanks again David on all the help!:) So, i'll post up some pictures tomorrow (just was too busy at work to do it). I'll call the weekend "the weekend of CA and recovery" as i had to use so much CA either to fill in spots that i carved too much away on or to fill in drill holes so that i can try a different alignment for drilling (umm yeah, my stern berrings i made for the rudder were causing a nice bind in the rod ... so i need to redo that entire portion (its much better now).

So, I picked up my primer and lacquer today; I should be able to pickle prime my white metals now and finish up that portion. BUT, the guy didn't have Nason 421-23 so he sold me the 422-23 after i told him what i was doing with it. Says that the stuff is pretty similar except that its a lot thinner and shouldn't even need cutting with lacquer to fit through the airbrush and it has a sealant built into the product .... so i'm hoping the stuff works the same for what i need it to do? my only concern is with the sealant aspect of it....while that screw with me as i'm trying to (prime/putty/pickle & repeat) on the white metals? My inital thought says no....but thought i'd pose the question.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

David:

Thanks again for your reply! So, I think i'm getting it... the ChromaColor and CromaClear do the same stuff (which is protect the colors that one has applied to the model)?

So, with my model (which i will be doing weathering on as well) I'll need the following correct?

1) primer and lacquer you suggested (dupont stuff).
2) ChromaClear with the ChromaSystem Basemaker (7175S) ... what product do i need to mix with the ChromaCleer to flatten it (or is that part of the mechanics of the Basemaker besides hardening?
3) Other soluable acyrlics, oil pants, pastel chalks, big boy crayons, etc for my basic painting and weathering.

Then these are the steps i'd go by?

1) primer obviously
2) Apply basic colors (color scheme)
3) Apply weathering (if wanted)
4) Apply ChromaClear (for flattening and sealing)

Is that correct?

Also, this is what i'm thinking about having my model look like (weathering and possible color wise). http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gall.../mg-index.html Any tips on colors i should pick up to achieve this type of weathering (like are there some favorites people like to use for best looking rust/fading/greening of copper/brass/etc)

No. ChromaColor is just that, color paint. ChromaClear is the clear coat. Both are two-part polyurethane chemistries, but different systems, you can't mix the two; they go down separately. I use ChromaColor for the basic 'factory fresh' colors of the model, I then use other systems (air-dry acrylic, oil, washes, oxidizing, chalks, inks, carbon pencil, and crayons for weathering effects). The very last coating to hit the model is one or more clear coats.

1) Yes
2) The flattening agent is a separate container (have oxygen available when they announce the cost)
3) you betcha! And practice your weathering techniques on an old discarded model -- play with it, have fun. It's big-boy finger-painting!

1) Yes. Prim, which identifies the dings, divots, and scratches which you'll address with filler and/or putty, then prim again, keeping at that cycle till the surface is flawless (yeah ... right!)
2) Bingo
4) You got it

Get these in oil, water-soluble acrylic and crayon: Burnt Umber, the primary colors, white, black. And this stuff, http://www.ugp.com.au/UGP_Rust%20Paint.html It's actual RUST! slicker than snot! I've used it on the Disney NAUTILUS and it works like gang-busters. Bob Martin (Mr. NAUTILUS next to Scott Brodeen) put me onto this medium. Thanks, Bob!

Here's the result of using the 'rusting' paint:






Go get 'em, Tiger!

[matthewnimmo]

David:

Thanks again for your reply! So, I think i'm getting it... the ChromaColor and CromaClear do the same stuff (which is protect the colors that one has applied to the model)?

So, with my model (which i will be doing weathering on as well) I'll need the following correct?

1) primer and lacquer you suggested (dupont stuff).
2) ChromaClear with the ChromaSystem Basemaker (7175S) ... what product do i need to mix with the ChromaCleer to flatten it (or is that part of the mechanics of the Basemaker besides hardening?
3) Other soluable acyrlics, oil pants, pastel chalks, big boy crayons, etc for my basic painting and weathering.

Then these are the steps i'd go by?

1) primer obviously
2) Apply basic colors (color scheme)
3) Apply weathering (if wanted)
4) Apply ChromaClear (for flattening and sealing)

Is that correct?

Also, this is what i'm thinking about having my model look like (weathering and possible color wise). http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gall.../mg-index.html Any tips on colors i should pick up to achieve this type of weathering (like are there some favorites people like to use for best looking rust/fading/greening of copper/brass/etc)

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

The ChromaColor and ChromaClear are two different systems with their own specific hardeners. You can't mix 'em. You first mix and lay down the color, then mix up your ChromaClear with the amount of flattener needed to get the sheen you want, then overcoat the model with that (after all painting and weathering has gone down). The clear does two things: it protects the paint and weathering mediums from handling and the elements, and standardizes the sheen your want the finish to posses (from dead flat to shiny 'wet' look).

The bottles of paint by the color wheel (used to find what basic colors to mix to achieve the desired color) are water soluble acrylics. I also use oil paint, pastel chalks, and crayons (the expensive 'artist' ones, not the kid-stuff) -- these and other mediums used during the weathering process.

I have spoken, so let it be written!....

[matthewnimmo]

David, thank you so much! This write-up is extremely helpful and the pictures are great! I do have some questions (naturally) as I’m use to the typical “go to hobby store model paints” and not the items you’ve mentioned.

1) The Chroma product line of DuPont (I think that’s who you said makes the stuff) has the ChromaSystem Basemaker (which is what you called the hardener), then I see the ChromaBase (not sure what this is exactly for…have an idea), and lastly I see the ChromaClear (is this the stuff that you put on last or something?). So with those products. Am I mixing the basemaker with a chromacolor to use on the model?

2) The picture with the color wheel and few bottles of paint (are those the ChromaColor line you spoke about?)

3) What exactly does the color wheel help you achieve? Is it one of those wheels that tells you what colors complement one another or something? Hard to see the fine details in the picture

4) This being a model that will be submerged … I noticed you have chalks and other smaller tubes of paints along with the picture. I can see the paint drying/curing and being fine when in the water; but how does the chalk work being in water?


Sorry for my ignorance (btw got my compressor and airbrush in finally … its gravity feed double action … so should do the trick…might take more passes than a bottom fed brush, but I’m ok with that).

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

No, the metal is not pickled enough. Get the acid!

I'm going to take some pictures, then write up a proper text and will walk you through the primer and paints. Prepare for sesory OVERLOAD!!!!

Be afraid .... be very afraid.


The Modeler whoes Name must not be Mentioned

OK, To properly pickle most non-Ferris metals you want to dunk the work in Ferric Chloride acid. You get this stuff from electronic supply houses -- they sell it to those who acid-cut circuit boards. And how do you tell if the white metal (95% Tin, 5% Antimony) is properly pickled (oxidized)? When it turns gray like in the below shot. Note how a copper bearing alloy (brass in this case) turns a very flat brownish color when oxidized. Pickling induces zillions (yes, I checked with Forbin, that's a real number!) of little pits to the surface of the metal, making it a much more receptive substrate to primer adhesion than when it's smooth. The acid won't attack CA, primer, filler, or most paints, so you can pickle over 'worked' parts.



Now, as to the primer and thinner to use: High quality stuff. Find a dealer of DuPont paint systems and get some of their Nesan 421-23. Only cut it with DuPont lacquer thinner -- get the moderate temperature stuff. For starters, cut the primer with a 50-50 primer/thinner ratio, then cut further to your taste, and what the air-brush/gun can handle.

Notice in the shot below that there's a bottle of pre-mix -- It's about a 75-25 cut, almost the thickness of syrup, the H-Model Paasche can squirt that if set at 30 PSI and equipped with the big tip. I typically keep the gun loaded and dirty -- this stuff is easy to clean with thinner and brushes, so no need to be a clean-freak with the primer gun.

I used to use the DuPont 31S primer, but that **** now costs about two-hundred bucks a gallon. Thank you, California! ... FREAKS!

Rattle-can primer is OK, but not as good as the DuPont stuff. Test on a discarded model first. I like the Krylon gray primer when I have to use the stuff. Otherwise, it's me and Mr. DuPont, all the way!



I use the two-part polyurethane paints of the ChromaColor line. Another fine DuPont product. The hardener is called, 'basemaker'. Whatever! Great stuff, and you can get custom mixes of color at the shop you buy this stuff from, just bring in a color sample for scanning and you're in business.



Below are some points on weathering techniques and mediums.

[matthewnimmo]

Ok, the stuff is ordered, should be here in 2-5 freaking days:( ugh....so i'll move on to another part of the sub.

[trout]

Yup, that is the stuff.

[matthewnimmo]

I'm looking forward to that write-up David, will be extremely helpful:) And to make sure i don't F'up. So, trying to find Ferric Chloride locally is like trying to find a plastic magnet ... the **** doesn't exist around here locally. I may have to order it online. This is what I've found. I think this is correct.

http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70125782#tab=overview

Thanks,

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

No, the metal is not pickled enough. Get the acid!

I'm going to take some pictures, then write up a proper text and will walk you through the primer and paints. Prepare for sesory OVERLOAD!!!!

Be afraid .... be very afraid.


The Modeler whoes Name must not be Mentioned

[matthewnimmo]

Ok, I think these are ready; but with soaking in vinegar without heating (as i was curious to see how long it would take for the purpose of those curious...and the fact that i don't have my airbrush in yet for priming). the picture below is what they look like after taking them out of the vinegar of soaking for 24 hours. Good enough David?

this one is the before =>


Also, when i get ready to prime these suckers (and my sub as well), just find some model paint primer from any hobby store or something different? If different where do you guys recommend me going? Also, when painting/priming etc through these airbrushes is it wise to cut the substances with lacquer .. like 50/50%?

Thanks gang!

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Radio Shack has devolved into a toy-shop with smelly-kids as Clerks. To them a resistor is some ****-head carrying a sign on Wall-Street. Worthless twits selling batteries.

Anyway ...

Look up 'electronics' in the Yellow pages, call 'em and ask if they have any acid etching solution.

David

[trout]

Matthew,
Looking good on the build. The rudder drilling is well done.
I found my acid at Fry's electronics. I am not sure where you live, so do not know if that helps at all. Radio Shack these days is not what it use to be. I went in there and asked about the acid and they all had deer in the headlights look on them. When I asked about wire gauge, I thought they were going to convulse and fall on the floor. Perhaps it is a Las Vegas thing, you may be blessed with knowledgeable clerks where you live. If I know of a way to ship some of this acid, I will give you some to use. PM me your address and I will see what I can do (if the boiling vinegar works let me know).
Peace,
tom