Scratch Build Soviet Project 667 BDRM Delta IV SSBN K-18 "Karelia" Scale 1/140

[DMTNT]

Very impressive David. This has always been a favorite design of mine and she's looking great!

[JHapprich]

Another picture:

[JHapprich]

In case you dont know this one yet:

[Davidh]

Hello all,

So once the missile deck had been squared up and sanded back at high points I then left it in order to continue work on the bow section. The main focus being the flat deck section that runs from the front lower edge of the raised missile deck to just behind the Torpedo loading hatches and torpedo tubes. This would once again be made of a piece of Renshape cut to 5mm strip, sanded down and then given the scribing treatment.









I rounded a curve in the back of the flat deck section so that It will wrap around the curve of the missile deck. I also worked out the overall profile of the Sail. At the moment the sail will still need a bit more sanding down. It is slightly wider than what it should be.




Before I could do this however, I needed to screw the front bow section into the PVA. So a small pilot hole followed by a rose countersunk type bit to grind a countersunk funnel type surface for the head
of the countersunk screw to go flush with the underside. I would then use filler around the joint where the PVC meets the bow plug. Once done i simply had to make sure that the Renshape strip was exactly centered along the center line of the top hull and also level, especially with the lower flat missile underside.













I had to overfill the filler around the sides of the Renshape strip. I was careful to not get the filler into the scribe lines. The overfill was quite messy and required some aggressive sanding down to get it smooth. There would then be a second and third round to take out the imperfections and dents. I would also need to add more when the surface wasn't quite level or curved at just the right angle.






The front section proved to be quite straight forward in getting straight and level. The challenge was to get the transition from filler curved around the front of the bow to transition smoothly into the timber of the bow plug as it sloped down towards the torpedo loading hatches and tubes. As you can see in this last photo the imperfections have yet to be filled and smoothed out further however the overall shape emerged pretty quickly and the gradual transition to the front has been underway. The filler has gone over the loading hatches somewhat. Finer and finer paper eventually works me down to the surface of the timber bow section.

Comments, Ideas and photo's of rear hatches greatly appreciated..


David H

[Davidh]

Hello all,

I have been somewhat busy lately and a little distracted by producing a new stern twin motor end cap. I have been putting up questions for HWSNBN to answer on "tool time". Thanks David, the info there has been fantastic as always. It has allowed me to get on the lathe and turn up some cool little parts. All I can say is, if you are serious about building your own subs , get a lathe, you won't regret it. Anyway I have a neat little twin motor end cap to replace the old one for the 661 Papa and which will also be making an appearance on the 667 when i eventually finish it...

Anyway, back to the 667.

The underside flat section of the missile deck has been done so now it's time to go back to the missile deck and get it in place. The plane called for me to use some self tapping screws (3 in all) and screw down the missile deck into a line that runs along the top of the PVC pipe hull and allows the missile deck to be firmly secured. Once this is done the Renshape strip with the missile deck detail can be glued down to the top of the wood missile deck box section. There are some wide holes drilled into the top of the deck and they align with the ones at the bottom that curve around the PVC pipe underneath.








I took a fair amount of time to make sure that the missile deck was straight and square. I measured the distance between the bottom edge of the missile deck and made sure that it was the same at both ends and sides to the ridges that runs beneath it. After screwing down the deck and checking how secure it is, I also then compared it to the flat bottom section making sure that it was square relative to it. I could place the hull flat on the table and could run a try square along the top and it should be level. Really crucial to get this right now.



Once this was done I would run filler along the joints of the where the missile deck base meets the pipe. After this I rechecked the squareness by using two sliding bevels set to 90 degrees and a ruler. Marking the precise spot where the edge of the ruler intersects with the vertical part of the bevel is them measuring the height. If the measurements are the same then the missile deck is square to the bottom.







After the filler has been used to give a gradual radius all the way around , it was time for sanding. Starting off with lots of 80 grit and then 120 to 240 I worked my way down. Making sure that the radius was generally consistent at any given point on both sides. The radius along the missile section on the 667 is pretty shallow with a sweeping curve. It sharpens and becomes a little more tighter around the stern as the missile deck narrows some what. I also found that I needed to sand over the top of the missile deck as the screwing down and filleting has pulled and slightly distorted the flat top surface. On one side I found that adding another screw and allowing that to pull down the side has helped to. Just had to make sure that the screw head , although countersunk did'nt shred the sandpaper...







Once i'd sanded around the base of the missile deck then a light coating of primer shows further imperfections. Once revealed, more filler, more sanding and so on....







Anyway, until next time...

Would still love some pics of the rear hull, anybody?...

David H

[Davidh]

Thanks lads for the feedback. Gives me some idea.

Continuing on from the underside, I had sanded back the filled areas in between the profile strips where they did not quite smoothly transition the PVC,. Plenty of 120 grit got the overall shape smooth and symmetrical. I gave it several shots of primer and then sanding back just to see where the inconsistencies were. Then finally smoothing down with finer wet and dry, down to 800 grade.
This takes a while as often the little imperfections are quite subtle and come in the form of troughs. I would mix up a small amount of filler and gradually apply smears of the stuff to level over usually done with a flat plastic edge that would follow the high levels and evenly deposit in the low areas to try and maintain the level surface.



Once this was done gave a further shot of primer and then looked at the ballast tank vents and anything else I would need to scribe. This is a bit of a guessing game as there isn't a lot of info on the underside of the 667. I am only looking at the side views to get some idea. Firstly I marked out the centre line and then do all the work evenly spaced either side of the that to get everything right. I have gone with a series of small square drainage holes along the flat underside. I no drainage holes here I can just see this boat sitting on my shelf with a nice little reservoir of water stagnating in the middle. Being mostly of filler these will be easy to scribe or Dremel away. Where the area to be detailed was wood I once again got the Dremel out and ground out a small section that would be filled in then sanded then scribed over, this is common practice for me. The side holes are rectangular in profile and are vertical and spaced apart somewhat.





Once the drainage holes were marked in the right spot I took to the spots withe my usual scribing tool, a fine round file that I have been using for years. Using a template in the filler I can create an almost as good end result as scribing into Renshape except that the filler is a little more brittle. I had to also remember that this detail would appear on the bottom mould which is a fibreglass hard shell mould and not a silicon one so the detail cant be too great, and the draft angle on the flat section fortunately is generous..

Before final Scribing, I went over the whole surface with 400, 600, 800 ,1200 grade wet and dry.






Once happy with the final produce I then gave it a couple of coats of primer to see where the imperfections persistent. As you repeat this process over and over again the number of offending surface deviations reduces and the surface gets better and better given time. After this a few more coats were added with delays for drying and sense of how the overall surface would look appeared. I'm quite happy with the results.





Ok, untill next week. Oh by the way, has anybody been able to find a good overhead view of the stern escape hatch?

David H

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

I was always under the impression that the triangular shapes on the front of the sail were port & starboard navigation lights. Why they taper like that beats me, but it seems plausible. Kind of like on the sail of the Type 212A, only a different shape and closer together.

Looks like the port-starboard running lights are where they should be. Maybe the hour-glass-in-outline lens is for the mast head-light?

David

[DMTNT]

On second thought... I actually have no idea. Seems to date back to the Delta I and possibly even the Yankee. They appear to be a lexan material probably like the windows above are - covering a small, but open free-flood area. Maybe for an under-ice sonar?

[Davidh]

Hello all,

Does anybody know about the triangular shaped window on the front of the fin? Why is it that shape?


Anyway, after getting the basic shape of the Fin right I then turned my attention to the underside. Delta has a flat section that runs the length of the missile compartment. There are enough photos floating around showing cut up sections of Yankee ( Yankee was the fore runner of the Delta series) that pretty clearly reveal the sectional profile of the boat at the missile compartments and you can clearly see that the flat section is simply there to support the missile tubes that are directly above. I've never build a boat with a flat underside section before. On the 667 it's pretty subtle. Not hugely noticeable but there. Most photos of 667 out of the water show hints of it.




To create the flat section I was going to have to cover over some scribing that I had already done for the main ballast tank vents. Marking off the drawings that I have has allowed me to work out the beam of the flat section. At the middle of the hull it is dead level with the keel. It does not bulge out underneath. To create the flat section I would take two pieces of pine and shape them into a triangular section that would conform with the lower hull. A gradual radius being sanded into the hypotenuse to give it a snug profile up against the PVC pipe. These would run parallel on both sides. Then I would paste a layer of filler of over the top and file it back until level with the lowest point of the hull and square with the top of the hull. In order to get this right I had to make sure that the centreline along the hull was exactly centre. Then measure the precise distance out each slide and draw parallel lines for the positioning of the blocks.














The ends of the profile has at this time not been tapered. The fore and aft ends would eventually need an upsweep that would give a gradual assimilation into the curves of the hull as it sweep upwards. I would create this by pasting over filler and sanding back a gradual tapering profile making sure that all four were exact. To do this I would rule lines off the centreline and make sure that at any given point along the fillets the distance from the centreline was exact on either side of it.










As mentioned earlier, I would love some explanations for the questions I have posed. I also need some really good overhead pics of the stern hatches in front of the vertical fin at the back. I have none. The only ones I have are low angle and its hard to make out the big hatch that is recessed in. Any good pics I would really appreciate it.

David H.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Welcome to the wonderful world of RenShape! Dimensionally stable, easy to work, and engraving the stuff is easy and sure.

David

[Davidh]

Hello All,

Thanks for the pictures Jorg,

With the two Renshape strips for the top of the missile deck mostly done, I decided to start marking out and cutting the sail/fin for in front of the missile deck. This fin is a little different in that it so prominently blends into the front raised section of the missile deck. It has a pronounced curve line that angles up towards the top surface of the missile deck that is subtle yet noticeable. I am thinking carefully as to how to integrate the rear of the sail in so that when the two are joined it is quite seamless yet easy to mould and integrate.

I took the drawings that I have been working off and like the missile door template I got some tracing paper and outlined the shape that I needed to create the sail. Then transferring this to cardboard I would soon enough have a port and starboard side of the fin. Taking out the Renshape I measured up a rectangular section to the overall side profile of the sail then measured out the thickness. Taking to it with a hacksaw and a coping saw for the radius's then block I needed was separated in no time. Then I drew an axis line down the middle top and bottom and measured at intervals to make sure that the thickness is consistent to where it needs to be. The fin is quite stock it has an abrupt curve towards the rear but would'nt call it exactly 'teardrop'. Not like the Skipjack at least.







I have made the sail that I cut out oversize so that I could then sand down to the correct dimensions. When I usually make a sail I usually cut it down the center along the axis so that I can mould two separate halves. I have found this to be a reasonably straight forward operation however this was before I started using the Renshape. I would start off with two flat pieces of timber and screw them together, this was how I did the sails for boats like the Mike, Resolution and Borei. However I had carved a one piece bit of Renshape and knowing me, when I tried to split it down the middle chance are it won't split neat and I'd loose valuable thickness correcting it. I have been considering doing it lately like a one piece mould just like how HWSNBN is doing of for Scott's November. Thoughts...







I really like the look of the 667's fin. It has a lot of character. The windows at the front are prominent, which leads me to another question, Still waiting on the rudder ones.. What is the window like structure beneath the two rectangular windows above? It is like two triangles pointing to each other. Is it another window, if so, why that shape? There is alot going on with the design of the fin. Over time it looks like alot of structure and alteration has been done with cabling and the like recessed into the steel plating. There is also a really interesting array of masts to model. This is going to take some work.



As mentioned before the transition between the missile deck and the sail is going to take some working out. I have marked it in yellow on this less than ideal pic. I need to make sure that the detail underneath and inside where the back of the sail meets the deck is not too complex. I want to gradually slope the very front of the missile deck so that it is easy to mould in the silicon without much in the way of sharp corners. I am thinking of creating the curve line of the missile deck moulded in as it meets the back of the sail and then having the rear lower section of the missile deck flare out as it meets the curve section profile of the top of the missile coming down. This means the rear of the sail will have a slight flaring out and will look even less 'Skipjack' that I mentioned before.









Enough for now, If you have any suggestions regarding the sail missile deck interface or the Triangle window section underneath the main windows on the fin I am all ears..



David H

[JHapprich]

the doors might cover the "Paravan" towed array and its winch ( Delta III features the same doors and those cover the Paravan Array)

see:
1 — основные антенны ГАК «Рубикон»; 2 — цистерна безпузырной торпедной стрельбы; 3 — 533-мм ТА; 4 — цистерна кольцевого зазора; 5 — торпедозаместительная цистерна; 6 - носовой люк; 7 — носовой аварийный буй; 8 — запасные 533-мм торпеды; 9 — торпедопогрузочный люк; 10 — носовой (торпедный) отсек; 11 — носовая группа АБ; 12 — гидродинамический лаг; 13 — ЦГБ; 14 — шпиль и шпилевая машина; 15 — баллоны ВВД; 16 — второй (жилой) отсек; 17 — кормовая группа АБ; 18 — закрытый ходовой мостик; 19 — репитер гирокомпаса; 20 — перископ системы МТ-70-8; 21 — перископ ПЗНГ-8; 22 — боевая рубка; 23 — третий (центральный) отсек; 24 — центральный пост; 25 — перископ астрокорректора «Волна»; 26 — радиосекстан; 27 — антенна радиопеленгатора «Завеса»; 28 — антенна РЛК; 29 — РДП; 30 — антенна СОРС «Залив-П»; 31 — четвертый (носовой ракетный) отсек; 32 — ракетная шахта; 33 — пятый (кормовой ракетный) отсек; 34 — лебедка ВБАУ «Параван»; 35 — ВВАБТ «Параван» и ее лебедка; 36 — шестой (вспомогательных механизмов) отсек; 37 — цистерны дизельного топлива; 38 — седьмой (реакторный) отсек; 39 — реактор; 40 — парогенератор; 41 — теплообменный блок; 42 — рессиверные баллоны; 43 — восьмой (носовой турбинный) отсек; 44 — паровая турбина; 45 — конденсатор; 46 — муфта эластичная; 47 — планетарный редуктор; 48 — главный упорный подшипник (ГУП); 49 — маслоохладитель; 50 — девятый (кормовой турбинный) отсек; 51 — электронасос конденсаторный; 52 — автономный турбогенератор (АТГ); 53 — всплывающая камера (ВСК); 54 — кормовой люк; 55 — гребной ЭД (ГЭД); 56 — муфта эластичная; 57 — десятый (кормовой) отсек; 58 — кормовой аварийный буй; 59 — приводы кормовых рулей



mark->copy>paste into google translator

[JHapprich]

some more random pictures:

[JHapprich]

Hey david, i believe the big doors aft missile section house some sort of antenna, i believe i saw that on a picture of a surfaced delta in the Arctic.

edit: wrong idea, it was that picture:

[Davidh]

Hello all,

thanks David, Yep, Renshape is the bomb....

Pity its hard to come by over here in Oz. Anyway Back to the Missile deck. This has been cut out of 5mm Renshape strip that will be glued down to the top of the missile deck. So once that was done I took out the thin steel sheet and marked out the template profile made on a piece of tracing paper. Once I had drilled out the hole in the middle and filed around to create the profile of the missile hatch, I could then cut out the overall piece and then bend the template to create the curve of the missile door as it wraps around the side of the missile deck.

Firstly I started marking out the placement of the lines and where the missile doors would be located. There were also some other details to put down like the safety tracks. These run down the length of the missile deck from just behind the fin down to where to deck meets the rear hull section.







I decided to scribe the Renshape before gluing it down to the top of the missile deck as
it would be easier just to handle the parts and make any corrections needed. This process has been good with the overall hull, working on sections, detailing them and not bolting them together until absolutely needed. The complication here is that the scribe work for the missile hatches wraps around the side of the deck and into a section of plywood on the side that will once again need separate dremel work that is aligned up with the edges of the hatches as they run down the side of the deck. Then some filling and sanding back, meanwhile making sure that this doesn't affect the edge of the Renshape as it sits above.
The Renshape will sit on a bed of filler that will either squeeze out the side of the deck or will be pasted in on the side with some tape protecting the detail from getting filler pushed into the scribed detail.
One of the good things about modelling the delta 4 and not the Delta 3 is that the delta 3 has a huge number of vents along the side of the missile deck. The 4 has hardly any, they are further down the side of the hull towards the back.








As can be seen in the plans there are lots of other deck details such as hatches, cleats and drainage vents. This missile deck has a lot of volume and so will need a fair number of vent points. Question: Does Anybody know what the four rectangle doors are at the stern end of the missile section? Also does anybody still know what the circles are on the rudder.? Still after an answer on that one..
One of the things I did'nt mention earlier was that I had to sand down the Renshape surface really smooth before scribing, otherwise you are going to have a rough surface around the work and this will take away from the overall finish..
Because the Renshape is only 5 mm thick I needed to make sure that the surface of the deck is exactly flat otherwise the strip will simply follow any undulations. I intend on giving this deck a further measurement and sand over before attaching the Renshape.






Anyway, Enough for now. Would love explanations for some of the questions. anyone..

David H