K Class submarine from 1916

[Bob K]

It has been suggested that I record my new project, a long term dream since I saw a shipwrights model in the Imperial War Museum in London over 40 years ago, into this 'competition' section. The K Class were 17 submersable destroyers built 1916-17, the largest ever built at that time, as well as the most complex due to the requirement of having steam engines and funnels to be fast enough to work with the British Grand Fleet. The amount of detail to model is mouth-watering. As built, with 3 deck guns, deck torpedo tubes, radio masts, deck railings, and numerous hatches.

Only back into modelling after decades away I could have got a 'build in a weekend' kit, but I am daft enough to set myself a major challenge, including making the funnels retract.

Loads of research, books, photos, later I am trying to track down that shipwrights model. Now in storage, probably at Duxford. Also deciding which boat as there appear to have been many variations with 3 shipyards involved plus various upgrades at different times. I will probably opt for K3 or K4, as originally built.

I have an undetailed basic K Class hull from Deans Marine, 1/72 at 53" long. My first snag was in getting an internal dive unit small enough diameter to fit this very slender hull. I was recommended to check out the Caswell/Merriman unit designed for the Revel Gato.

Would it fit? A simulation was built using beers cans of 2.5" dia and card.

It fitted, just. I much appreciate the kind assistance of Caswell in helping me establish what I would need to fit out the SD25G subdriver. A large box arrived from the States and I set out all the parts to figure out how it goes together. Parts include a set of M Class diving planes and rudder, plus an ADF2 self leveler & fail safe.

Thanks to this forum I now have a better understanding of the WTC unit assembly.
My first task will be to build and test the sub-driver, then mount it into the hull.
Once I get on to the detail modeling of the hull I will be more confident, but please remember this is my first RC submarine.

As an aside, below is a scratch built Apollo Command & Service Modules I made largely from ABS a long long time ago.


Warning: This could be a long build so please don't expect weekly updates. I intend enjoying myself planning each step as it gradually comes together.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

We'll be watching with interest, Bob.

David,

[Bob K]

Just to let you know the K Class Project will be restarting soon, just finishing the rebuilding of my WW1 cruiser HMS Skirmisher. I am not going to rush my first submarine !
I recently went to a submarine event in St Albans England. "Dive-In To Summer". Over 20 working subs and a crystal clear swimming pool, I learned so much about this 'black art' of model boats.
Progress report soon

Bob K

[RonP-UK]

One of those amazing moments in ones life happened to me a few years ago when I met the oldest surviving submariner in Britain, he was 96 years old at the time and had seved on "E" class boats during the first world war but later on in his career he served on "K" boats. He told some interesting stories, one being that the galley was in the upper superstructure and was designed to free flood when the boat dived, however there was no klaxon in those days and no bell at first until a couple of somewhat surprised cooks found themselves up to the knees in water before they realised that the boat was going under. A bell was introduced but it did not prevent cooks racing below decks with pots and pans clattering around their necks and clutching a newly baked pie that they didnt want to lose. The boats themselves were a dead loss really, the British (us lot) regarded the submarine as the weapon of a weaker nation but we had our arses well and truly kicked during the first war at the hands of the U-boat men so it was decided thatwe must have the things to support the British fleet, they had to be fast to keep up with capiral ships so the K class was derived.The "K" class had two oil fired boilers each with it's own funnel which had to fold down into a watertight well and as these boilers needed large air intakes these also neede watertight seals, in the words of one contempory submariner at the time "too many bloody holes" and a minor obstruction was sufficient to jam a vent open just as the boat was ready to dive. A chapter of accidents befell the 17 "K" class boats but the worst was during the battle of May Island on the night of jan 31 1918. Two flotillas of K boats were operating with battle cruisers on a night exercise and were involved in multiple collisions. K4 was sunk by K6 and K17 was sunk by a cruiser, as if to confirm the growing voodoo on the class an enquiry revealed that the disaster was caused by a jammed helm on K22 wich in fact was originally K13 but was renamed after drowning most of her crew on her maiden voyage. STILL want to build one Bob?

[Bob K]

Despite their many failures in operation they were the largest, most ambitious and sophisticated, and by far the fastest subs of their era. It took almost 40 years before a successful steam turbine submarine was built, USS Nautilus. K's were designed to work with the fleet, their successors have made such fleets obselete and become the deterent which has arguably saved millions of lives. For this at least we should honour those who served in the K's, boats built generations before technology could realise their potential. In fact most warships between the 1840's and 1920's were an evolving mish-mash of innovation by trial and error.

I have spent many years researching these boats, and appreciate your insight into galley operation. I have no doubt that my model may well prove to be as challenging to trim and dive as the real thing !

Bob K

[Subculture]

Just keep the upper works (superstructure) as light as possible, and I don't see any major issue at all, Bob. By purchasing a proven dive module, you have already side stepped most of the major hurdles that baffle nascent sub aquatic modellers e.g. getting a reliable sealed chamber, effective shaft seals, type of ballast system. So you're off to a flying start.

The problems that affected the real K-boats will not be an issue in a model, unless of course you plumb for real steam power too!

Any problems you experience with the k-boat will be the same as that experienced with a Type VII, or an S-class e.g. twin screw, fore and aft hydrovanes. The rest of the boat is just window dressing, and although the shape of the hull will impact the handling of the boat (turning radius response to dive vanes), the REAL submarine lies within the subdriver.

One last thing, don't get hung up on building all the detail. You can get the boat running with it still in gelcoat, iron out the bugs, and then do your best paint job on it. When you're all hooked up, shoot me a line, and you can bring it up to St Albans for a test run. I don't recommend testing it at Black park on a first run- it's a bit deep there. Plus if things don't work out as planned, you can always drown your sorrows at the bar!

[Weissman]

Hi Bob,
I have just joined the sub forum and was excited to find ANOTHER K Boat fan. I too have been fascinated by these boats ever since I saw a photo of one when I was very young, about 55 years ago. I am unlikely to be stating mine for another year or so (I am still building a 1/72 scale model of HMS Glamorgan) and will therefore be VERY interested in how you go about your build and solve the problems. I don't know which K I will build, possibly it will be K26. I am going to build my own hull, however. I had a look at the Deans hull but it is actually not 1/72 scale. It is too short by about 3 inches. I will follow your posts avidly!
cheers
Kim in Australia

[Bob K]

Hi Kim: Great to hear from another K boat enthusiast. A pity we don't live closer to each other. Having a hull to work in was a big plus, although from data I have it is more like 1/76. Please bear in mind I am only back into modelling after 40 years, and I am crazy enough to go for a submarine (having never built one) and a technically highly challenging subject at that.
I am at present trying to learn all I can about model submarines, and have been to two sub events. People have been really helpful and I have learned a lot from inside their boats.
Where I am right now is struggling to decide whether to build the Gato SD25 WTC first, and fully test it out, before starting on the hull and controls, or build the boat first and then try to build the WTC inside it. There is great info on the Caswell site for WTC's, but my one appears a lot different from the Seaview version described in great detail in their PDF's.
I guess what would really help is some detailed photos of the Gato version, preferably with a wiring diagram.
Having a set of very detailed plans From John Lambert Plans I see the front diving planes retract when on the surface. Another fun variable in the complexity. I am aiming to somehow run that from the same channel/servo that will retract the funnels.
The Caswell WTC I have has a gas operated ballast-blow system, and also a snort pump system which seems a great idea as this will greatly extend dive/surface operations. Submarine controls are a heck of a lot more complicated than my two channel WW1 cruiser, so I want to make sure I fully understand what is involved before I make too many mistakes !
It will be built, but patience and learning more about them is key right now.

[Weissman]

Hi Bob, I am glad you are breaking the ground on a K Boat build, hopefully I will learn from any errors you make! :)) I believe the sensible way to approach the build, from what John Slater has been telling me, is to build the hull first - or get your kit one fully assembled - and worry about the WTC afterwards, just in case a Gato WTC is too big.
On the K boats the front planes DO retract into wells rather than fold down like a Gato so I am not sure how you would manage that - maybe best to just have them out to start and modify them later if you can work out how to.
Yes, retracting funnels is a must have feature. One feature I would love to have is smoke! I have not seen a photo of a K Class underway which was not belching black smoke. I cannot see how to solve the problem - a smoke generator would need to be able to survive a dive or be closed off with hatches (thus duplicating the K Boat design fault of "too many bloody holes" and inviting disasters on a model scale) and, in any case, is unlikely to be able to produce BLACK smoke in large amounts.
Anyway, I will watch for when you start a K Boat Build thread.
cheers
Kim

[Bob K]

Hi Kim. No worries, the WTC fits nicely, just. A very slim slender hull. I built a simulation tube first before ordering it. However, there is so little space around it I need to make very sure of how everything goes together because after cutting holes and epoxying control surface controls etc it will be too late to try and move anything with hindsight. It is quite probable that I may have to move positions of dive planes and rudder etc slightly out of scale to suit WTC linkages.
I have figured out how to retract the front dive planes, but they must be zeroed horizonally beforehand. The hinging linkages for the funnels are interesting, I have a sequence of photos captured from a short movie (click image below). Reasonable space in the superstructure, but linking the actuating rod to either F or R of the WTC is something I need more info about.

Smoke! Wow, I had thought about that but decided it was a bridge too far. Tee hee

[herrmill]

The Perfect Propulsion Mode For Your K Boat

Howdy Bob. Was curious to see if you're still working on your K class boat?

If you really want to think outside the box & build her as a surface runner, here's the perfect mode of propulsion for you. :wink:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150998631258

[Bob K]

What an incredible little steam engine !

My K build is on temporary hold, looking for a suitable non LiPo battery (these really scare me for underwater use), and trying to get the bouyancy / ballasting to work properly.

It will be completed, after I have finished my semi submersible torpedo ram HMS Polyphemus of 1881. This ship is going well, just commissioning the electrics. A servo operated valve to release air from the side ballast tanks plus a 12V air pump to blow them. Input to the pump is via brass tube mast 'snorkel'. Ballasting tests completed for both the 'safe sailing' waterline and the low freeboard attack mode. She should run with the main deck almost awash in 'stealth' trim. 7 watertight compartments.

[herrmill]

Good to hear.

I came across your HMS Polyphemus thread recently on MBM & am following with interest. Love the title thread: "H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine"

You should post a link to your build in the target section since its about as close to a submersible as you can get!

[Albion]

My K build is on temporary hold, looking for a suitable non LiPo battery (these really scare me for underwater use).

Get Some LiFe A123

[Subculture]

I think the issues with lithium batteries and water have been grossly overstated by some people in an effort to reinforce their own opinions.

I took an old lipo battery that was past it's sell by date, sliced the casing open (which took a sharp knife- these packets are tough) and dumped it in a bucket of water. Result was a few tiny bubbles and zip.

Any battery presents a hazard if abused. Make sure you fit a main fuse between the battery and the feed and you will be fine.