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I think my viper 10 blew up

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  • #16
    I stand corrected. Thanks, Mike. And Robert: Sorry to be so quick on the draw, I should have looked into the warranty issue before spouting off.

    David,
    Resident Luddite

    Comment


    • #17
      Viper 10 blow-up

      Hi.

      Steve from Mtroniks here.

      Sounds like interesting behaviour. Normally if the ESC was blown up (a rarity) as a result of an overload, the LEDs and BEC would continue working. Destroying the BEC is quite an achievement, I wonder if that's what has happened. Do we know the maximum possible current drawn by these motors? Does all the cabling look OK - nothing fried? Does the ESC's body appear to have overheated or smell?

      Originally posted by robert lipsett View Post
      I bought a 3.5 dual motor sub driver and a viper sub 10 controller. I am in the process of putting all the equipment together. I connected all the electronics together except for running the wires from the controller to the two motors. I used a dean connector from my 11. 1 lipo and made sure I had proper polarity. the controller led flashed and supplied power to my reciver and servos which worked properly. my snort pump which is connected directly to the battery was functioning properly. I un plugged the battery then connected the two wires from the controller too the two wires from the motors. I then plugged the battery back in and the controller did nothing no flashes no power for the bec. I then unplugged the battery and cut the motor wires. I replugged in the battery and the system is still dead. What should I do now and what should me meter read across the two motors to prove that they are good or bad. Did my motors blow up the controller?

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      • #18
        I note we've recently had some comments regarding our equipment.

        Have to point out that we have a helpful and very responsive warranty system - if you're not in the UK, transit times slow things, but we're still very good. I'd hate anyone to get the idea that we're not interested, or that the products are not guaranteed in any way. Normally your local supplier should be able to deal with things and then pass any problem units on to us. If we don't see returned failures, it makes our job of improving things in future more difficult!

        Will try to keep my eye on the forum over the next few days and answer any queries I see. Thanks, Steve.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by mtroniks View Post
          I note we've recently had some comments regarding our equipment.

          Have to point out that we have a helpful and very responsive warranty system - if you're not in the UK, transit times slow things, but we're still very good. I'd hate anyone to get the idea that we're not interested, or that the products are not guaranteed in any way. Normally your local supplier should be able to deal with things and then pass any problem units on to us. If we don't see returned failures, it makes our job of improving things in future more difficult!

          Will try to keep my eye on the forum over the next few days and answer any queries I see. Thanks, Steve.
          Steve and all,

          As a user of the MTroniks ESC's exclusively now for three years I have to comment (you're listening to a guy who has installed, programed, and tested over 200 MTroniks ESC's that we install in some of our SubDrivers) that their line of ESC's are compact, easy to program, and are nearly bullet-proof.

          Again, I apologize to Robert for my ASSUMPTION that the MTroniks ESC's were not a guaranteed product. I was wrong, and stand corrected on that issue.

          And I wish to extend, again, to Steve, and the wonderful people at MTroniks my appreciation for the fine products they produce, the great on-going engineering and improvements, and way above par customer service.

          For the longest time this hobby of ours was limited by the capabilities of the speed-controllers we had available to us -- in some cases entire power trains were designed around the ESC; what it could, and could not do drove us as to how big and capable our submarine could be. That situation changed when the Mtroniks ESC came on the scene. Now we need not give a second thought as to the current demands of the motor when we set about designing our boats, just plop the appropriate Mtroniks ESC in there, program it, and you don't have to give it a second thought. Thank you, Mtroniks!

          I now slink back into my cave.

          David,
          Resident Luddite

          Comment


          • #20
            My unit is being mailed to Mtroniks today.

            I'd suggest Robert did the same and shipped his unit to them directly to speed things up. Or you could send it to Caswell Inc. who will forward it to them.
            Stop messing about - just get a Sub-driver!

            Comment


            • #21
              i sent my broken one in and installed my new unit the same way as the old and it worked fine. question can it connect me magnetic switch I got from engle in place of the slide switch that the mtroniks unit has to turn it off and on so that I can turn my system off and on with it fully assembled?

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by robert lipsett View Post
                i sent my broken one in and installed my new unit the same way as the old and it worked fine. question can it connect me magnetic switch I got from engle in place of the slide switch that the mtroniks unit has to turn it off and on so that I can turn my system off and on with it fully assembled?
                Robert,

                Very good, let us know of any further ESC problems. And thanks for sending the bad unit in -- the more bad units we send to MTronics for postmortem, the better will be their determination of point of failure and corrective actions needed. The result will be a better product down the road.

                Yes, the low-current magnetic reed switch is suitable as a replacement for the ESC on/off switch, i.e. there is not enough of a current spike across those contacts to damage the reeds. This is fine if your SD is not employing a Low Pressure Blower (LPB) and/or a Lipo-Guard, or any other device hooked up in parallel with the battery. Such an arrangement is schematically represented below and makes the point that isolation from the ESC is not going to shut down the paralleled wired devices:

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                So, there are at least two other devices within the SD (you are planning on wiring things up as I illustrate?) that parallel off the battery. The above mentioned LPB controller and Lipo-Guard, for example. Securing power to the receiver bus by using the ESC switch (supplied or the magnetic reed switch you mentioned) will not isolate the other devices wired into the battery. If you attempt to secure SD power using the ESC switch the idle current those devices pull will discharge the battery over time ... and if that battery is a Lithium-polymer or Lithium-ion type, when the charge on the battery drops below the critical voltage it will kill your very expensive battery.

                Below we see a Lipo-Guard and a LPB controller that are about to be wired into the battery cables -- power to these items has to be isolated from the battery, power can not be controlled through the ESC switch.

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                Forget it, you need a proper mission-switch to chop power to EVERYTHING within that SD. That switch located on the downstream side of the battery connector, up forward, the switch mounted on the forward dry space bulkhead.

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                Shutting down the ESC is not enough if there are other devices wired in parallel with the battery. You need a robust on/off switch to isolate the battery, not just the ESC. Also know this: Since the potential on/off spike at the mission switch can be a bit high, a reed switch in that portion of the circuit would be susceptible to a current spike which would permanently weld the contacts closed. As Andy Lawrance informed me, if you use a reed switch, you use it to control a high current capable switch like a latching relay or one of those solid-state flip/flop switches.

                Andy? ... how'n I'm doing here?

                I have spoken, so let it be written!

                David,
                Attached Files
                Resident Luddite

                Comment


                • #23
                  Yep sounds good. The Engel switch has a relay all installed, and so it should for thirty euros they charge for it.

                  Note that the switches now come in different ratings, so do ensure you are within the rating of the relay contacts, else it'll be tears before bedtime.

                  Some guys are using MOSFET' instead of a relay. They draw very little power and have very little on resistance, and can pass very high currents. Also very compact. Food for thought
                  Time to DIVE IN! https://www.facebook.com/groups/133360626703083/

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Hate to be an 11th hour arrival on all this, and as I openly attest electronics are my weakest link - but I have had many weird Mtroniks ESC glitches and all only with subs- the fix has been -bypass the BEC.
                    We have discussed it before here on SDs- am wondering if the BEC could have been in play here as the problem?
                    J
                    John Slater

                    Sydney Australia

                    You would not steal a wallet so don't steal people's livelihood.
                    Think of that before your buy "cheap" pirated goods or download others work protected by copyright. Theft is theft.



                    sigpic

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                    • #25
                      Could be any number of things- bad Mosfet in the H-bridge, duff microcontroller etc.

                      Only way to know for sure, is to open it up, but as Mtroniks stuff is potted in resin, you would knacker it in the process.
                      Time to DIVE IN! https://www.facebook.com/groups/133360626703083/

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Subculture View Post
                        Could be any number of things- bad Mosfet in the H-bridge, duff microcontroller etc.

                        Only way to know for sure, is to open it up, but as Mtroniks stuff is potted in resin, you would knacker it in the process.
                        They usually use a really cheap resin for potting, so it's relatively easy to un-pot it.

                        Just dunk the part in some lacquer thinner (cellulose thinner) and let it soak for 2-3 days. The resin will turn to a crumbly (cheese-like) rubber and you can carefully pick it off. I've done several of these and been very successful.
                        Stop messing about - just get a Sub-driver!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          A new replacement controller just arrived in the mail. I wish I knew why the old one blew up. so far so good everything working fine

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Well, now you can add my name to the list of guys, like Robert and Dalton, who have had the Viper Sub 10 ESC blow up on them.

                            I was outfitting a GATO SubDriver this evening (the acrid smoke smell still clinging to my hands and shirt). As I added devices to the motor bulkhead I periodically attached a 7.4-volt battery to the ESC to power things up and check for proper operation of the system. All was up and working until I switched from a 7.4-volt battery and went with the 11.1-volt battery, that Ellie and I got a bit of a fright: the instant I closed the mission switch and, Whaaammo! ... the ESC epoxy case cracked and spewed molten solder! I disconnected the battery pronto and quickly touched everything, looking for heat, an indication a dead short somewhere. Only hot-spot was the ESC -- the entire aluminum heat-sink was 'warm'.

                            Now, as I understand it, the Viper Sub 10 is good to go at 12-volts. The 'incident' occurred at 11.1-volts. The ESC had been working fine for a couple of days, with repeated temporary hook-up to 7.4-volts as I conducted the device installation and check-out steps. This particular Viper ESC **** the bed only when I hooked up the 11.1-volt battery.

                            As Steve, our very responsive and helpful MTroniks representative, suggested, I'm going to box up the ESC and send it to their facility for a proper postmortem.

                            Now, with a history of like failures of this specific ESC (Robert, Dalton, and me) on record, I would suggest ... and this is an educated guess, not at all conclusive ... that we have a bad batch of ESC's in the pipe-line.

                            Below are shots to better illustrate the situation, as I experienced it:

                            The failed ESC still hooked up and configured when it suffered a catastrophic failure. Ellie is pointing with the X-Acto knife blade tip the location of the crack atop the ESC epoxy potting material. It was through this heat caused crack that molten solder spewed forth. Note the burns on the heavy gauge power cables leading from the battery -- the insulation on the cable wires did not fail as a consequence of hot wires, the burns were caused by the hot solder squirting out of the ESC case. Yikes!



                            This shot, a block diagram, is a representation of the wiring arrangement used in the GATO installation -- this for Steve, so he has a better idea how I hook-up the ESC with the other devices. Note that the battery is wired in parallel with the ESC, the LPB electronic switch, and the Lipo-Guard (low voltage detector).



                            The ESC went tits-up the moment I switched from a 7.4-volt battery to a 11.1-volt battery. WTF?!....

                            Here are the two batteries used.



                            Close-up of the spot atop the ESC case where the molten solder shot out. Note that I've removed the heat-shrink tubing from the three-device parallel wiring point. I was looking for alternative sites from which solder would have melted and dribbled onto the ESC case. Such was not the case. Closer examination revealed that the sole source of the molten solder was the epoxy resin encapsulated ESC board.



                            One final look at the device arrangement on my GATO SubDriver.



                            Steve: I'm boxing up this ESC and will send it directly to your factory tomorrow morning. And may I say now how much I appreciate your interest, and efforts to put this situation right. MTroniks is a great vendor, and I simply love your product line.

                            David,


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                            Last edited by He Who Shall Not Be Named; 08-14-2010, 07:07 AM.
                            Resident Luddite

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                            • #29
                              Can't see the attachments, but have you got a fuse in the circuit?
                              Time to DIVE IN! https://www.facebook.com/groups/133360626703083/

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                              • #30
                                Andy,

                                I just 'attached' those missing shots to the bottom of the narrative. Hope they show up for you.

                                A valid question. And one of my terrible little secretes will be revealed below.

                                You SOB! You're about to make me look like a jerk now ...

                                ... No, no fusing.

                                Typically, the fuse goes between the ESC and the motor which, in this case, would not have mattered: the ESC blew up before any current was directed to the motors. And if you fuse ahead of the ESC and the fuse opens up on you, then you lose all system propulsion and control power (the ESC routes battery power to the BEC) with the likelihood of losing the boat. I you fuse behind the ESC then you protect the ESC from excessive motor draw and retain power to the BEC and the devices it feeds, so you can get the boat back (either through transmitted command or fail-safe function).

                                I don't fuse protect my system.

                                There!

                                Happy??....


                                David,
                                Resident Luddite

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