surface craft with a flooded hull

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  • roedj
    Captain
    • Sep 2008
    • 563

    surface craft with a flooded hull

    To All,

    I am currently building a Caldercraft 1/48 scale Round Table Class minesweeper from WWII, the Sir Kay. From those who have preceded me in this build, the main rap against this particular model is its extreme tenderness, i.e., it tips over in the slightest cross wind or tight turn. As the Round Table class boats were based on a trawler to begin with, the free board is very low. To make matters even worse, there are lots of white metal castings for all the various deck equipment including all the mine sweeping gear which only makes the center of gravity, c.g., even higher, i. e., farther away from the center of buoyancy, c.b. With the already low free board, this is definitely bad juju.

    People have replaced some of the deck equipment with resin castings made from the white metal masters. Some have replaced the wooden decks and cabin sides with Gator board which weighs far less than wood. Some have replaced parts wholesale with styrene . All of these ideas have helped - some - but not, to may taste, enough.

    So why am I posting this issue on a submarine forum? Good question - here's why.

    As I see it the problem is one of the c.g. being above the c.b., actually way above. So if I could just lower the c.g. and at the same time raise the c.b., I may improve the situation a lot. But how to do this?

    Here's my idea. Put flood holes in the hull, say in the bottom of the keel where they'll be little noticed and then put closed cell foam under the deck to float the whole thing. But wait you say, won't that put all your innards (electronics, motors, etc.) under water. Why yes it will.

    Aha! Put all my electronics and other stuff in a modified (no ballast tank) Sub Driver which, when properly weighed down, will be, for the most part, under water.

    So basically, free flood the hull, lots of weight (lead) down low, lots of foam up high but under the top deck where it can't be seen, all the "goodies" in a modified (no ballast tank) 2.5" SD, use Gator board instead of wood up top, use styrene where ever I can.

    Now it's your turn - I need a sanity check before I go and do something monumentally stupid. Feed back please.

    Thick hide like a rhino,

    Dan

    P.S. If this idea makes any sense and is do-able, I may try an SD with a ballast tank with a SNORT in a model of a Great Lakes freighter to simulate when it's empty or full.
    Born in Detroit - where the weak are killed and eaten.
  • alad61
    Commander
    • Jan 2012
    • 476

    #2
    To me it sounds like you'd have issues with water sloshing inside the hull as you drive it around. Unless you are doing some sort of baffle system. Bit it is an interesting idea though.
    Cheers,
    Alec.


    Reality is but a dream...
    But to dream is a reality

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    • H2Ohaze
      Lieutenant Commander
      • Jul 2011
      • 117

      #3
      In engineering you go from simple to complicated.

      How about picking up some PineCar weights in whatever form fits the very bottom of inside hull best. The putty will melt in your car on a hot day, don't get that form.
      The weights are 1.7 X as dense as lead. But $$$. I had a challenge with my Holland sub: there was little room to put weight or foam. And it was rolling in the slightest wave.

      First I stuffed as much foam as I could get in just below waterline sculpting carefully with a hot wire. Then I kept adding 1/2 ounce and 3/16 oz plate form tungsten until I had added about 7 1/2 + oz in the small room between WTC and bottom inside hull. Worked great.

      BTW, the plate form of the PineCar weights look like they were made to exactly fit the bottom of my Revell VIIC 1/72. Almost don't need glue!


      Some people that built the paddlewheeler riverboat Mrytle Corey say it is hard to float except in near zero winds. What some people do is mount a keel and weighted bulb (say from a sailboat) to the underside that is removable when on display. Rationale is, you're not going to see a keelbulb much under water (yes I know, I can see submarines under water). You could paint it a neutral color.
      Last edited by H2Ohaze; 09-05-2013, 04:34 PM.

      Comment

      • roedj
        Captain
        • Sep 2008
        • 563

        #4
        Baffles - good idea - hadn't thought of that.

        Pine Car weights - used them in my SWM Blueback - worked very well but, as you say, mucho $$$.

        Dan
        Born in Detroit - where the weak are killed and eaten.

        Comment

        • NavyICman
          Lieutenant
          • Jun 2010
          • 60

          #5
          Harbor freight sells alloy wheel weights in a package of 8 stripes that can be busted down by 1/4 oz. about 9 bucks. Used them in my OTW Molch for fine trimming in addition to the 2.5 lbs of lead in the torpedoes for main ballast

          Comment

          • Slats
            Vice Admiral
            • Aug 2008
            • 1776

            #6
            Don't do it.
            You are overcomplicated the engineering.

            having built some 50 RC ships over 2 decades I have had my share of touchy vessels including a Type 21 RN Frigate, Guiseppe Garibaldi an Italian Carriers with the roundest hull I've ever seen save for a sub, to Cruise ships with massive sail areas and a plethora of craft in between with sail areas, curvy hulls, high superstructures, and low beam to length ratios etc etc

            Build the top weight light. Some kits I have been handed to do from clients have superstructures that are 5 times the weight that is possible by scratch building with Evergreen styrene etc.

            Photos please BUT DO NOT proceed with this idea of free flooding. All you are doing is adding ballast and there are many better ways to do that in a target.

            With a tippy boat with low freeboard - I'd be also upping the watertight integrity of the structure, and adding flotation foam into the hull as well as building light and adding lead or fixed ballast down low.

            Best

            John
            Last edited by Slats; 09-29-2013, 08:06 PM.
            John Slater

            Sydney Australia

            You would not steal a wallet so don't steal people's livelihood.
            Think of that before your buy "cheap" pirated goods or download others work protected by copyright. Theft is theft.



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            • Alberto Bassi
              Lieutenant, Junior Grade
              • Jan 2012
              • 24

              #7
              Hello Roedj,

              I am basically new in the forum.
              I saw your thread; it is a year old, but I am curious on how this issue was solved. Time ago I built two small boats and had the same problem: the displacement was so small that the very weight of the machinery put the hulls low in the water, however stability was poor. I fixed this by adding a small weight at the end of a rod attached to the hull in order to lower the cg. Not orthodox, but effective and unseen from the surface.

              Regards,

              Alberto.

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