RCABS I'm over it

[MFR1964]

OK Guys, stop poking feathers into my *ss, i do sit down at some times, like normal mortals.



Greetings Manfred.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Only in the last year or so have I been aware of Manfred's work. Since then I've been on the lookout for his posts -- the most innovative, skilled, and complete discussions I've ever seen on the topic.

David,

[Albion]

Manfred, your boats are a whole different class!!!


Mike - A55

[MFR1964]

Well, once a while to be poked at is good to think outside the box, as David mentioned before there is some experience under the belt with compressed air systems.

I'll explane some features, it's all driven by a 12 V compressor, it works automaticly from 1 untill 6 Atm, controlled by a home made pressureswitch.
To tackle the common problem of unnoticed low pressure at the buffertank i've added a extra feature to the pressureswitch, which means in practice, at 1,5 Atm all valves used for diving are blocked, at 2 Atm they will be set free, it's calculated in such way that this amount will get the inlet of the compressor above the surface of the water.
Since the ballasttank contains a volume of 1,5 liter this will be more than enough to get the boat at the surface.
Only problem with compressed air systems, is the complexity, i've chosen it because i also run the scopes with air, also wanted to approach the real boat as close as possible.
With using compressed air you always run a high and low pressure system, 6 Atm high pressure at the buffertank and 1,5 Atm low pressure at the component side, this is be done by using a special valve which reduces the pressure from 6 to 1,5 Atm.
To avoid that the hull will be cracked during a airleak i use the same compressor inlet with a floating device, allowing the compressed air to escape the boat during such a event.

As you can see it will take some effort to build such a system, but once in working order it never failed me for 25 years in the same boat, i do have to mention i've allways build my boats as a dry hull, so room is not a problem, if someone gets the same system inside a regular WTC tube i will be really impressed.


Greetings Manfred.

[Kazzer]

Me thinks Manfred is not to be poked at, Mike.

His work, in this arena, is to us what Chaplin is to Carrot Top.


Manfred: We're all ears here.

David,

Ahh! Well if he's going to talk about Low Pressure Blowers instead of it's proper name SNORT, then I'll have to sharpen my poking stick. I see the bad words checker is working fine and L P B gets printed *** Ha! Ha! Ha!

[NavyICman]

Technically if your Snorting, you are running the Diesel engine hence Snorkeling. We don't say "Prepare to Snort on all main ballast tanks" or "Commence a Snort on all MBT's", we say "Prepare to place a Low Pressure blow on all main ballast tanks" and "Commence a Low Pressure Blow on all MBT's" We also say "Prepare to snorkel", "Commence Snorkeling". "Prepare to Snort" and "Commence Snorting" just don't have the same ring.

There you go Dave.....someone to back up your position

[NavyICman]

Low Pressure Blower, Low Pressure Blower, Low Pressure Blower, Low Pressure Blower...nah nah nah........:)

[Kazzer]

Me thinks Manfred is not to be poked at, Mike.

His work, in this arena, is to us what Chaplin is to Carrot Top.


Manfred: We're all ears here.

David,

Ahh! Well if he's going to talk about Low Pressure Blowers instead of it's proper name SNORT, then I'll have to sharpen my poking stick. I see the bad words checker is working fine and reference to that blower gets printed *** Ha! Ha! Ha!

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Me thinks Manfred is not to be poked at, Mike.

His work, in this arena, is to us what Chaplin is to Carrot Top.


Manfred: We're all ears here.

David,

[Kazzer]

O my goodness, now i have to get my beloved air compressed system out of my VII type, and replace it for a low pressure blower system, and throw away all those years off working perfectly, hmmmmm, no way!!!


Greetings Manfred.

Well! Lets see some pictures of it then!

[MFR1964]

O my goodness, now i have to get my beloved air compressed system out of my VII type, and replace it for a low pressure blower system, and throw away all those years off working perfectly, hmmmmm, no way!!!


Greetings Manfred.

[Kazzer]

And I have to ask, why one would want to be deep diving in a 100' deep lake? It seems a little suicidal to me. I'm not familiar with the XXI actual operating depth but it dived with Harry Truman on board to 440', so lets say 500'. Thats twice the length of the boat, so in scale about 6' deep. 50' out from the bank, deep diving, how on earth can you see the boat?

So, lets look at something more practical, especially for 'Newbies' . The option is Snort.

Install a Snort pump.
Ballast the boat, so with the ballast tank full of water, the boat is at periscope depth.
Give the gas tank a shot of gas, don't bother to fill twice - most time you aren't going to use this. It's only for emergencies!
Now, operate the Snort pump to bring the boat to the surface.
Vent the tanks to dive, then dynamically dive to go deeper than periscope depth. If you get into trouble, the boat will surface to periscope depth even if everything has failed.

And lets face it, what could be simpler - one small pump operating at atmospheric pressure, pumping a little air. No drain on the battery, low maintenance, and almost nothing to go wrong.


There! I have spoken. We will not discuss this again! All other systems are pitiful. And - RCABS sucks (just to annoy those RCABS fans out there!)

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

When you first charge the WTC-3 on-board bottle, you vent that initial charge in order to chill the bottle, reducing its energy. You then charge the bottle again, getting a significant amount of liquid inside (about one ounce worth). That enough for nearly 20 blows.

Though there is a slight internal 'over-pressure' within the dry spaces of an Engle pump equipped boat that would help drive the piston(s) back out to the 'empty' position, it's all negated by the high mechanical drag of the jack-screw piston moving mechanism -- no matter the pressure in the dry spaces, no pistion is moving unless its associated motor is running!

The Engle piston system is good, and the quality of Engle equipment is the gold standard in this game. But: the piston pump ballast sub-system requires a great deal of space, sucks up a lot of current, presents internal differential pressure issues, and the single piston installation has CG issues.

You buy our SD then you're getting a basic gas type ballast sub-system with the ability to supliment it with a ***.

David,

[Albion]

I don't think you can blow it at 100 feet per se, but the pressure would build up in the hull, and hopefully facilitate pushing the water out of the pistons?

Most systems would have trouble with a blow at 100feet, that is 4 atmospheres, and propel which is compressible will be 4 times smaller volume than it is at surface. Maybe if the propel tank was full there would be enough to get it off the bottom, then the excess gas will expand out of drains on way up. RCABS would be dead. Assuming the WTC wasnt leaking the Engel system wouldnt be too bad, theres about 1.5 atmos inside the WTC and 4 outside, so if the motors were good enough (maybe an upgrade) then no reason why not.

Albion - who really should be working speculating about pressures

[mostpeople]

Interesting read guys, I run an old D&E 3.0 in my 32 parallel type XXIII, with just the ballast system no ***. I find it to be a very nice system but I have some issues with using it, and I think it is probably just my own ignorance, maybe you all can help?

First being I don't know how much propellant has made it into the tank. How can I tell?
Second being I don't know how much propellant is left, I mean, I blow the tank and the thing rises to the surface.. but do I dive again? I have limited myself to 3 dives per run, simply because I don't know how much I used during each cycle?

Anyways, Dave, I would like to know your opinion on the Engel piston system. I've heard that it is quite nice, now.. I don't think you can blow it at 100 feet per se, but the pressure would build up in the hull, and hopefully facilitate pushing the water out of the pistons?

I will be starting a build on a Thor type XXI soon, and I intend to use a 3.5" custom WTC, and I am debating what type of ballast system to use.