Resurrecting a D&E WTC 3 skipjack after 13 years

[llangston1]

You are correct that my actuating level is putting too much up pressure at full throw on the blow position on the little flapper causing the little bubble to roll off the opening and crack open the vent. However if I lower the adjusting screw to relieve that pressure the vent will not seal at the neutral position. I am sure it's due to the tiny misalignments in the vent assembly and my actuating lever since this is an older model WTC. I could try to reduce the actuating lever total throw when it moves from vent to blow but then I might have problems actuating the propel release valve. I am liking into going back to the old style vent opening but use some screws to attach rather than just RTV (so I can make adjustments easier) and then manny some sort of a cup shaped vent seal/washer out of cured RTV so it will provide some squish when under sealing pressure. I just need to figure out how to make/ mold that washer seal to the proper dimensions. I was considering some sort of a RTV tapered plug seal but I was concerned that the plug might get "stuck" in the vent opening and not release when commands to vent since the brass actuation lever is not very stiff.

[greenman407]

llangston, no need to put your sub in too much danger. Find a body of water thats shallow and test until you are sure that you have it. You can test the cylinder in the bath tub(probably what you are doing) Or put the sub in a Kiddy pool. It almost sounds to me like you are trying to close the flapper with too much force. What if you back off on the pressure the screw is exerting and put a drop of machine oil on the seating surface? You mentioned earlier about enlarging the vent hole. If its too big, it wont seal. There is a rounded bump on the flapper. Its supposed to seal the edges of the hole, not fit inside of it. Take a pair of magnifying glasses and carefully look at the hole from the inside of the cylinder, where the flapper is supposed to seal. Are there any cracks or flashing preventing a seal? Hope this helps. Dont worry, youll get it.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Well after some fine tuning I got the new valve to seal the ballast tank at the neutral position. I had to use a flatter head screw to minimize the side force that wanted to push the little flapper seal to the side. It works fine at neutral and opens fine in the vent position but it still cracks open what I move to the blow position. The additional up pressure on the screw when the ballast actuation lever moves up causes the flapper to crack open and release air from the tank. The air released is no where near the amount released during a commanded vent but it is still bothersome. Most likely the propel release (if I can get that working with the gas saver lever but that is another long story) would overwhelm that wire release but I would like to see if I can get it right. I sure don't want to lose my sub if I screw it up.

any comments or suggestions from anyone including HWSNBN?

A question for HWSNBN: Will the WTC 3 ballast bulkhead take a small set screw like the ones you use on the newer model sub drivers to adjust the position of propel release valve assembly. I think I need something like that to lock down my valve since I am going to have to pull it out 1/8" or more in order to get the valve to contact the gas saver lever when I activate the blow. Right now its just stuck in place with RTV and I have pulled it out just to get some actuation contact but I don't think it will stay in place once the servo pushes on it.

thanks for all the assistance from everyone.

Yes, you can.

M

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Well after some fine tuning I got the new valve to seal the ballast tank at the neutral position. I had to use a flatter head screw to minimize the side force that wanted to push the little flapper seal to the side. It works fine at neutral and opens fine in the vent position but it still cracks open what I move to the blow position. The additional up pressure on the screw when the ballast actuation lever moves up causes the flapper to crack open and release air from the tank. The air released is no where near the amount released during a commanded vent but it is still bothersome. Most likely the propel release (if I can get that working with the gas saver lever but that is another long story) would overwhelm that wire release but I would like to see if I can get it right. I sure don't want to lose my sub if I screw it up.

any comments or suggestions from anyone including HWSNBN?

A question for HWSNBN: Will the WTC 3 ballast bulkhead take a small set screw like the ones you use on the newer model sub drivers to adjust the position of propel release valve assembly. I think I need something like that to lock down my valve since I am going to have to pull it out 1/8" or more in order to get the valve to contact the gas saver lever when I activate the blow. Right now its just stuck in place with RTV and I have pulled it out just to get some actuation contact but I don't think it will stay in place once the servo pushes on it.

thanks for all the assistance from everyone.

Yes, you can.

M

[llangston1]

Well after some fine tuning I got the new valve to seal the ballast tank at the neutral position. I had to use a flatter head screw to minimize the side force that wanted to push the little flapper seal to the side. It works fine at neutral and opens fine in the vent position but it still cracks open what I move to the blow position. The additional up pressure on the screw when the ballast actuation lever moves up causes the flapper to crack open and release air from the tank. The air released is no where near the amount released during a commanded vent but it is still bothersome. Most likely the propel release (if I can get that working with the gas saver lever but that is another long story) would overwhelm that wire release but I would like to see if I can get it right. I sure don't want to lose my sub if I screw it up.

any comments or suggestions from anyone including HWSNBN?

A question for HWSNBN: Will the WTC 3 ballast bulkhead take a small set screw like the ones you use on the newer model sub drivers to adjust the position of propel release valve assembly. I think I need something like that to lock down my valve since I am going to have to pull it out 1/8" or more in order to get the valve to contact the gas saver lever when I activate the blow. Right now its just stuck in place with RTV and I have pulled it out just to get some actuation contact but I don't think it will stay in place once the servo pushes on it.

thanks for all the assistance from everyone.

[llangston1]

By old type does yours have the small round black rubber washer on a tiny screw that seats against the vent opening that is RTVd to the cylinder? That is what I have and I am working on a softer and slightly larger washer to ensure a good seal. I think I can make one by squirting RTV into it's tapered spout, letting it cure and then pulling out that plug and slicing it at the right taper thickness I need. The cured RTV is much softer than the black rubber thing. Have you made any mods to yours over the years?

[greenman407]

Maybe Dave needs to send you a couple of new ones. I havent yet had the chance to use the new one. Mine are the older type.

[llangston1]

Ok I have now reached a dilemma with the ballast tank vent valve. I was able to adjust the linkages and the valve flapper adjust screw to the point where when the ballast servo is at neutral the tank was sealed or has maybe a small bubble every 15 seconds or so. However when I move the servo to the blow so it releases the propel the extra pressure on the vent valve flapper forces it to slide over and open up the tank vent. If I try to adjust for less pressure at neutral the flapper will not seal at all. Are the sides of the tank vent opening supposed to provide later stability to the flapper. If that is the case then my opening is way too large since all I did was enlarge the original round hole opening so the tank didi not touch the flapper.

My current plans are the go back to the original vent valve assembly. I will try to use the little screws that hold down the new style valve so I can do the adjustments.

Has anyone else had these sorts of problems with the new style vent valve. Perhaps I could superglue some thin vertical supports on either side of the valve flapper to stop it from sliding off the vent hole. I have attached some picture of the valve open and with it sliding off under closing pressure.

Any suggestions from the forum members?

[llangston1]

Stupid me! The tank wasn't venting because it had already vented as I submerged it. D'oh! It was never sealing in the first place. I finally got it to seal properly but the new style valve still doesn't work correctly. I can see the flapper slide off to the side as the screw presses up on it from below. Once it slides over to the side it can't seal correctly. I am considering a hybrid valve that uses my old WTC screw/seal with the new vent hole. I just need to come up with a softer sealing material that will give me enough squish in case of any misalignments between the vent hole and the vent seal.
Slowly but surely I will get this figured out.

[llangston1]

I'll try the bathtub next time. It has to vent since I enlarged the original hole so it would fit the new flapper valve. I am turning the WTC and TX on so the ballast servo seeks it's normal position with the joystick centered and the trim levers centered as well. I'll get it right soon enough. If I can't get the new valve working I can easily install the old one and just add a little layer of RTV on top of the rubber seal to increase its flexibility and sealing against the valve seat.

[greenman407]

Give it a little bit of depth of water. Put it in your bathtub and hold it down with one hand while using the radio in the other hand. Also put a drop of light machine oil(3 in one) on the flapper valve. It may sound dumb but take the flapper completely off and submerge the subdriver . Make sure air comes out then. Then put the flapper back on with the least amount of adjustment pressure. If it refuses to vent then, the least amount of adjustment pressure is too much and a modification will have to be made. If you can take some closeup pictures and post them here so we can see. Maybe your missing something.

[llangston1]

More updates. I have been having trouble with the newer style yokes and getting adequate clearance and deflection using them as compared with the older soldered brass rod ones. I think i will just reuse the older ones. Also I modified my WTC with the latest style of ballast vent valve and no i can even get the tank to vent at all even with the little screw adjusted until its not even touching the rubber flapper. Nothing else in touching it either. Do I need a certain depth of water to get it to open up. I am just using a large cat little box 6" deep for testing instead of my bath tub. this is really got me buffaloed. Is the vent flap floating in the water and closing itself off instead of remaining open? I will work on it some more before I switch back to the old WTC vent. I think I know why it was leaking and can easily fix it.

here is a picture comparing the old and new yokes with pitch plane on the bottom and rudders on the top with my prop shaft in between.

[llangston1]

OK thx. I assume that all the hull mounted metal parts like cleats and such would just be black. What about the sail parts like radars dish and periscopes, snorkle head, etc. All the little parts that mount on the masts. Would they be black or some other color? also does anyone know the 1:96 scale length of the tallest periscope when fully extended? I had rigged a little rod on a float inside the sail to extend when the sub submerged but I would like to know if its long enough. I would like the use the periscope part in the pictures of earlier post but I need to know the correct length.

[Peter W]

Fair comment Tim, I use regular CA and it is something I have always been taught. Will have to look into Gorilla CA.

Peter

[NavyICman]

Depends on which CA you use. I use Gorilla CA, It is waterproof. I have submerged my models multiple times with no paint on this CA with no adverse effects.

Tim