Painting a nuclear sub - for real

[roedj]

Groupies,

Help me out here to understand how a real nuclear sub is painted. I've lived in Michigan almost all of my life so I've never seen a modern sub for real.

1) Is the entire hull painted with anti-fouling red oxide first?

2) Then do they paint the upper part black down to the half way point?

I'm asking this because in DM's Thors' Seawolf painting cabal report he painted the part above the water line black (or nearly so) then brown down to the half way point and then red oxide for the rest. Did they really paint the subs brown or is that the effect of the sea water eroding/corroding the black off until some of the red shows through giving the effect of brown?

Dan - a Laker from way back

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Groupies,

Help me out here to understand how a real nuclear sub is painted. I've lived in Michigan almost all of my life so I've never seen a modern sub for real.

1) Is the entire hull painted with anti-fouling red oxide first?

2) Then do they paint the upper part black down to the half way point?

I'm asking this because in DM's Thors' Seawolf painting cabal report he painted the part above the water line black (or nearly so) then brown down to the half way point and then red oxide for the rest. Did they really paint the subs brown or is that the effect of the sea water eroding/corroding the black off until some of the red shows through giving the effect of brown?

Dan - a Laker from way back

Dan,

I'm from Ann Arbor, Liberal whack-job Central. You?

Anyway ...

No, the anti-foul paint (and not all of that type paint was 'red' -- Portsmouth shoved boats out with a black bottom I believe) was only applied to the below waterline or below centerline portions of the hull.

My experience in 'real' submarines was from the late 60's to the mid 70's, so understand that is the limit of my practical submarine painting experience. Nuclear or diesel, the boats received the same type paints. Though the systems did vary from yard to yard the paint systems and colors (guided by what was called in the SIB and Booklet of Ships General Planes a 'painting schedule') became standardized once the boat hit the fleet and were assigned a squadron -- I can assure you that the Commodore and his staff made damn sure his boats all conformed to SubPac or SubLant dictates! Back then SubPac boats had their vertical surfaces above waterline a dark gray. SubLant boats all black.

First, the raw metal is primed with red-lead or some such anti-oxidizing primer. Then goes down the color (what color!? either black, white or very dark gray!) Then, the underwater portions of the hull get painted an anti-foul coat -- usually red. Nowadays, black.

Before the SEAWOLF class, boats would sport the red anti-foul paint, pre-commissioning, from waterline down. The demarcation line between this red and black was lowered to centerline once the boat was ready for patrol -- that's how you tell if a boat pictured in a photo is in pre-commission or in patrol status: by where the anti-foul demarcation line is.

As an aside, Dan: I endeavor to paint my r/c model submarines in the pre-commission scheme. More red means an easier to see model with these tired old eyes.

The SEAWOLF and late construction LA's introduced the practice of mixing the red anti-foul paint and black for the areas from centerline up to waterline -- that stopped when the navy went with the black anti-foul system a few years back. Now the boats are all black (the SubLant two-tone scheme went out the door in the late 70's I think).

That 1/96 SEAWOLF I assembled and painted reflects that weird transitional three-tone paint scheme. The waterline-to-centerline band should have been a bit purple in color, as we see a bit of that in the real boats that sported that puke scheme. Oh, well.

[roedj]

3 tone paint job

David,

1) Canton, first city east of whack-job central

2) Here is pic of USS Barbel


Is this what you mean?

Would it be terribly wrong to paint a Seawolf like this? Tired ol' eyes and all that.

Dan

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

David,

1) Canton, first city east of whack-job central

2) Here is pic of USS Barbel
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4050[/ATTACH]

Is this what you mean?

Would it be terribly wrong to paint a Seawolf like this? Tired ol' eyes and all that.

Dan

Dan,

I'm at a loss to explain the different hue/color of the paint from centerline to waterline, as this appears to be a shot of that teardrop shaped diesel boat being re-floated after a hull scrub and fresh paint-job. The only rational (other than there being a specific paint used between centerline and waterline) for the color shift is that for some reason the boat had to be re-floated after only a few days in the drink.

I can't give you a definitive reason for what we're seeing here -- the last of the BARBEL class boats hung up their spurs before the SEAWOLF class got its toes wet.

The SEAWOLF class is now all black, but the SEAWOLF itself initially (and I think the CONNECTICUT too) sported the red anti-fouling paint from centerline down with the brown-purple between centerline and waterline.

David

[roedj]

The SEAWOLF class is now all black, but the SEAWOLF itself initially (and I think the CONNECTICUT too) sported the red anti-fouling paint from centerline down with the brown-purple between centerline and waterline.

David

David,

I thought that the purple on the Barbel was the brown-purple you were talking about.

In any case, painting it in colors like in your cabal report would be OK with the "rivet counters", not that I really care.

Thanks for posting those cabal reports, they're very helpful.

Dan

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

David,

I thought that the purple on the Barbel was the brown-purple you were talking about.

In any case, painting it in colors like in your cabal report would be OK with the "rivet counters", not that I really care.

Thanks for posting those cabal reports, they're very helpful.

Dan

You better care about the rivet-counters out there. I'm one of them; I'll be on you like white on rice if you screw that paint job up!

But, now that you've presented that picture, I'm not sure what I'm seeing. For the time the boats were put down (late 80's) the brown-purple thing had not been introduced. I think you're looking at some very light in-water marine growth.

You assembling a Small World Models BLUEBACK? Those are fine kits.

David,

[roedj]

David,

Methinks you speak with forked tongue. I have seen in other places where you say that you are NOT a rivet counter. Maybe it goes like this - rivets you don't count - paint jobs you "count". Is that it?

I have assembled the SWM Blueback then disassembled it and reassembled it. I consider it my test bed sub. It's still running around in black primer colors and has the SWM WTC with a lot of KMC's electronics in it. This time, however, I am on the verge of acquiring an old unassembled Thor Seawolf as well as a "for the most part" assembled Merriman Skipjack to which I'll add some KMC "stuff". And just to fill in all my "spare time" I'm still working on the MBD "U" class British WWII sub.

The ship yard is very bizzzzzie.

Dan

[ManOwaR]

This is an interesting topic to me. I too, followed the 'Merriman 1:96 Thor Seawolf paint concept' when putting colour onto my USS Jack. My antifoul was also a mix of red and brown to create the 'Red Oxide' but came out more on the reddish side after final clear coat, although I'm still pretty happy with it. From surfaced water line and up, I mixed a very dark grey using black and white. From the surfaced waterline down to the centerline I mixed an almost 50/50 mixture of both my 'dark gray and antifoul red. The results were pretty comparible to the attached drydock picture of the real USS Jack somewhat after what I would say was a fresh paint job.



I always kind of thought in the back of my mind that the reasoning for this so-called weird paint scheme might have a logical reasoning to it afterall. We know that that old black paint didnt have the antifouling properties that the red stuff containing copper did, and we can probably assume that that red stuff is highly visible from the air when the boat is close to the surface, so they needed to darken it. Still needing antifouling below the waterline perhaps they just painted over it to the surfaced line with black and the colour ended up being not-quite-black, but weird-purple...kinda like when you paint your walls in your house with a different colour than the original that was there without using a proper primer, the colour just won't be the same as the paint chip that came with your can unless you put 6 coats on. Or...maybe they just mixed both the black and antifoul together and slopped it on the boat that way to get a reasonable antifoul effect?

My thoughts anyway, what's your guys'?
Joel

[Albion]

I've seen that Jack photo before and to me that looked like black which has spent some time exposed to the elements (ie sea water) with surface rust kind of breaking through. But your idea could be more logical, thin coat of black to stop it being so visible.

In the attached photo would the lower dicoloration be due to scraping or removal of paint in dock, or just a tough sortie?


Was hoping the Purple might have been a bit more jimmy hendrix paisley patterned just to brighten it all up, but i guess not so :(

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

I think Albion hit on a logical answer for the discoloration in that JACK shot -- bleed through of color (red undercoat, black overcoat). Good catch, Albion!

Dan, that THRESHER/PERMIT class boat has been kicking up against camels (bumpers) that keep the boat from slamming into the piers when tied up. The heavy paint failure at the bow is because this boat is still sporting a GRP sonar dome, not the later steel domes -- paint don't stick too good to plastic.

David,