British Boats Comparisons

[Kazzer]

Just for fun, I sat down last night and went through the Wikipedia specs on most of the boats I have plans for. I extracted some basic data and placed it in an Excel sheet, and here is the result.



Why? You may ask.

If you look at many of these basic shapes, you'll see that they are very similar. The M1 looks much like the E Class etc. etc. After a brief discussion with The Wizard it would appear that we could come up with several basic molds from the 1:72 scale M1 master we have. I even think we could make one or two of the smaller boats in 1:36 scale, all that being needed would be an extension or shortening of the boat amid-ships.

I'd like to hear your comments guys.

[Subculture]

There have been a couple of pre WWI era Brit boats kitted over the years. Dave Diplock did a nice E-class, Norbert Bruggen did a C-class and the Holland class has been done about three times now. Deans marine make available a k-class hull, which can also be chopped about to build an M-class.

For some reason that escapes me, they're never the most popular of subjects- people tend to go for WWII boats. I think a lot of this is to do with them being within living memory of the folks modelling them.

[Slats]

Mike,
- whilst I admire the engineering development and evolution of these what I call early craft, I am pretty much a modern, post WW2 sub enthusiast. Exceptions are are X craft - would like to do one of these boats in the future, but that would mean wondering away from my 72nd scale life.

All good information though Mike. I think the close comparison is part of natural evolution of these subs. If you look at SSNs they tend to have a lot of similarities too -
Permit / Sturgeons / LAs - all very similar beams, shapes. Swiftsure to Trafalgar - very similar too

Best
J

[Kazzer]

I guess we all have our favorites, and I don't find the modern boats at all interesting, no torpedoes, no anchors, no guns, no railings - they just aren't killers, unlike those older boats who even have their Jolly Rogers adorned with their kills. And what could be neater than a boat with retractable chimneys or a small plane flying off it? Crazy, silly, dumb? I guess so, but, to me, those details are a show stopper.


Here is the K Class hull from Dean's Marine.

Their spec is
Scale approx. 1/72
Length 53”
Beam 4.25”
The actual scaled size is
Scale 1/72
Length 56.5”
Beam 4.43”

Personally, I can live with that sort of error, but I know there are a few 'rivet counters' out there who may balk at it.

My M1 mold is 49" long x 4.2" beam (actual scale should be 49.29" x 4.1"), so I guess adding 7" amidships to make this a K Class (is that where this should be done?) is a fairly easy task for those who want to do this?


Seeing as the Deans model is a hair out in length anyway, perhaps my dream of getting two models from one mold is better realised by using my M1 mold, rather than importing Deans? Considering that I am amongst 'the few' that like these oldies anyway, then my question is, what to do for the best?

[Subculture]

Here in the UK larger scales seems to be more popular, or perhaps it's just that the models people build are based on what has been available now and in the past from the various UK based manufacturers (Darnell, R&R, Sheerline/Eden, OTW etc.). Prior to the advent of the internet, it was difficult to find out about overseas producers unless one was in contact with international members. Even then most people I encounter prefer to order from UK companies to avoid complications with shipping payment etc.

I think this is mirrored to a large extent in every country.

Most of the non nuke models over here tend to be 1/48th scale or larger, with 1/72 scale or 1/64 being popular for nuclear attack boats. 1/96 and 1/100 is reserved for big bomber boats like Ohio, Vanguard, Typhoon etc. where are a larger scale would dictate a very large model indeed. Very small boats tend to get modelled in 1/12 or 1/24th scale with a few at odd scales like 1/9th. A few modellers must have a 'big-one' and model at 1/32nd. These guys can usually be spotted by their bad posture. :wink:

Larger scales make it easier to render detail, and make that detail robust, which is important for a working boat. Also a lot of modelmakers like something they can get their fingers into, and once you get beyond 1/48th scale for pre-nuke boats things start to get a bit Lilliputian for those with pork sausages for fingers and many (most) will avoid.

In terms of popularity, M-class K-class boats and others of that ilk are never ever going to be big sellers. The main interest for these is either novelty, or historical interest. Anyone wanting a boat that handles well would avoid like the plague.

At the same time, I think those interested in such an item are likely to be fairly picky about accuracy.

Very early boats like the Holland through to the C-class all make excellent handling boats that are small (portable) at coarse scales. The problems that made them unpopular with their crews- cramped conditions, low freeboard, petrol engine propulsion etc. don't occur in model form, and they tend to out perform models of much later designs with their close to ideal hull forms and large control surfaces placed behind the props.

In a nutshell, if you want to make models of boats like M and K classes because of personal interest, crack on. From a business perspective, I don't think they're a good choice.

[Outrider]

Since you asked...

1:72 seems to be a nice scale for many submarines. Obviously big boats like the M-1 & M-2 are more of a challenge to operate in a pool, but I think there's some value in seeing different types of boats operating together.

As you noted, everybody has their own preference about what they like regarding era and nationality. I like modern diesel-electric boats as there's a good mix of hull forms and plenty of information on tap. Western nukes have a certain sameness once the Albacore hull was adopted that limits their appeal to me. At least in polystyrene, Soviet boats seem not to be kitted in the right combination of a desirable scale or in sufficient quality. The Trumpeter Kilo seems an exception.

I do have a fascination with the development of submersibles. The WWI era is part of that. Big Fleet Boats like the Ks, the unsuccessful marriage of the large caliber gun and submarine (M-1) and the effort to provide organic aviation capabilities (M-2 and some German efforts) all started in that time. The interwar Surcouf, combining twin 8 inch guns and a floatplane might be an interesting subject. WWII Japanese subs fascinate me, since they were only rivaled by the Germans for inventiveness. 42 Japanese subs had floatplanes, their midgets hit Pearl, Sydney and Madagascar(!), and then there were the Kaitens. Among the more inventive U.S. boats were the five Regulus subs that were developed in the '50s. Two WWII conversions, two diesels built for the purpose (Grayling & Growler), and the SSG(N) Halibut. Depending on the scale selected, the Regulus boats could probably even be set-up to launch an Estes-type rocket or a Seal Delivery Vehicle.

As to the commercial potential of the big WWI-era boats, I agree with Andy's analysis. Not that model aircraft have anything to do with this, but there, WWII sells and WWI doesn't. My sense is that your customer base probably follows this acquisition pattern as well. Fortunately, not everything is stuck in the Axis-Allied conflict. There are plenty of recent jets on the market, which I'd say bodes well for modern subs.