Lead Ballast versus powder coated wheel weights??

[Slats]

For all my subs I have used lead weights for ballast trim requirements but have seen a few photos of people on the web using Wheel Weights (used for vehicle wheel balancing).

Wheel weights are usually steel - prone to rusting, yet powder coat ones can be purchased.
See link below for example:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Motion-Pro-Steel-Wheel-Weights-72-Piece-Set-Black-/330922451464?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSI%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D330930686881%26ps%3D54

Now Lead is denser than steel so gram for gram or ounce for ounce, Lead has a bit of an advantage over concentrating the ballast effort into a smaller spot...for example:
every cubic cm of lead contains 11.34gms of lead
every cubic cm of steel (depending on the steel composition) contains around 7-8gms of steel.
So that is an advantage of lead being around 1.5 times heavier / denser per unit of real estate that is offered up.

However the wheel weight strips do appeal to a very neat and tidy application of ballast weight.

So question is I'm wondering if anyone has any experience on the use of wheel weights?
Do even the powder coated ones rust?
How did you apply them (epoxy perhaps)?
Should you coat them in exopy resin once in place to further rust proof them?

Many thanks

John

[satlite440]

i casted my own out of tire weights..i made a postive mold then a negitive mould to pour the melted tire weights into..i made several pours in to both moulds early pours were several ounces over the required amount then ground down to size.. as it was i needed both my heavy ones to get 90% in the keel with about 1 and 1/2 oz to play around with trimming...i'll let you know how it works out..

[Slats]

i casted my own out of tire weights..i made a positive mold then a negitive mould to pour the melted tire weights into..i made several pours in to both moulds early pours were several ounces over the required amount then ground down to size.. as it was i needed both my heavy ones to get 90% in the keel with about 1 and 1/2 oz to play around with trimming...i'll let you know how it works out..

My neighbour did this with both lead tyre weight, lead shot, lead flashing, sinkers you name it.
With 20 years metallurgy experience and being a stickler for safety the guy still ended up with severe lead poisoning!!!
His hobby right up until the day he died was RC yachts and he used different lead pours etc for different bulb keel spaces etc.

I do appreciate your reply, BUT I want to avoid the Rube Goldeberg route of all that extra and potentially hazardous job of melting lead or any other material and making moulds. There is an abundance of sinkers and wheel weights (later being the most visually neat), and the fact that unlike a yacht's keel bulb we don't need precisely shaped moulded weights.

So back on track guys - questions please are again below:
has any experience on the use of wheel weights, (not melting them down - but just applying them in the hull)?
Do even the powder coated ones rust?
How did you apply them (epoxy perhaps)?
Should you coat them in epoxy resin once in place to further rust proof them?

Thanks

John

[trout]

The Type 23 that I have was built by Mike Dory. He used tire weights directly to the WTC.
They are lead (the dimensions are 19mm x 17mm x 2mm) and use the adhesive backing that came with the weights (some were adhered with silicon).

I think on this sub, it was done that way because of the 32nd Parallels hull has a bit of a flex to it. The sub runs wonderfully with this setup (knowing it is not optimizing the metacenter). As you pointed out steel will be larger and this does not answer your rust concerns. Maybe an auto/tire shop can give you one to throw in a cup of water and see.

T

[vital.spark]

Hello John,

I use the lead wheel weights similar to what trout shows when I need extra weight to balance out my subs. I picked mine up from tyre shops in Christchurch. Some I bought new but latter on, Tony's Tyre gave me a handful of used ones free. even when used the adhesive backing was strong enough to stick in place! If you need less than one square just cut with a pair of side cutters.

Regards,

Myron

[alad61]

I had trouble finding wheel weights so I bought a piece of coated flashing from the local Bunnings which I then just cut with a Stanley knife using a steel ruler as guide. I find it's very malleable, easy to cut and works well with rtv silicon. I tend to cut the strip as wide as the steel ruler and then into sections from 1/2 inch to 3 inch. From memory it was 18 inches square when I first got it and as its only about 2mm thick you can stack several pieces together without interfering with an sd, its mounting blocks and if you cover any vent holes in the subs lower hull the offending piece can be scored with a No 11 knife.

Sorry. Not really answering you question though...

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

U-238...................

[roedj]

Warning - totally off topic.

The old style Americas Sup sailboats were mono hulls that maybe reach 10 knots surfing not like the 72' LWL catamarans that will race this Fall. This year's Americas Cup will be more like NASCAR on water.

Anyhoo, with mono hulls it's always a game of trying to get the most weight down low with minimal wetted surface area. Traditionally, the ballast of choice has been good old lead because of its high weight to volume ratio, i.e., its density.

As the 'story' goes some years ago the Italian contender (you just gotta love the Italians - always innovative - if not just a little pazzo) was seriously thinking about using spent uranium for ballast because it has a higher density than lead. Sadly, they were turned down - just too many jokes about their boat glowing in the dark.

Comandante Cazzo

[Kazzer]

All this chatting about weights is very interesting, as I have gone down the same road of experimenting and many of you have.

I've melted lead in a crucible and poured it into rubber molds, and found that to be a really nasty job, fumes and the slightest blunder and you have molten lead on you. I burnt my foot quite badly after one stupid move. It was enough for me to try other ideas, and I went to a local gun shop and bought several 25lb bags of lead shot.

We have lots (50 gal drums) of epoxy, and I tinkered with mixing the lead into to epoxy and pouring it into molds. Lots of problems wetting out the shot and premixing didn't work, as the lead sank to the bottom of the resin. When I tried to pour it out all the resin poured first. I eventually figured it out and now make weights for the Revell VII, Mobious Skipjack, Revell Gato, and have a couple of others in the works.

I have considered making up a small kit with lead shot, and epoxy, but its hard to figure out how much to put in the kit. These smaller models don't need much and it would be cheaper to buy the made up weights. I think the really big boats warrant the kit, but I'd need some guidance on the volume for these boats.

I did make my entire keel for my 1:72 M1 from resin/epoxy and I've completely overdone the weight, so now I am busy filing it down. Darn!

[trout]

Mike,
Great to hear from you. You have been quiet lately.
The resin/lead shot idea is a good one - even if it was not enough to get it trimmed right, then you can supplement the remaining needed weight with tire weights.
T

[Kazzer]

Mike,
Great to hear from you. You have been quiet lately.
The resin/lead shot idea is a good one - even if it was not enough to get it trimmed right, then you can supplement the remaining needed weight with tire weights.
T

Yes, I've had a lot on my plate just lately. My wife was diagnosed with breast cancer, just as we were coming up to the '5 years and free mark' since her last bout with it. This time it was more serious, so she opted for the double mastectomy. She's recovering well and in good spirits, able to drive and get about almost normally after only six days. What a trip to hell that has been for us!

Then, to top it, Mr Merriman has been in hospital for a few days, with BP problems. Getting Old Is Not For Cissies!

[Subculture]

Getting Old Is Not For Cissies!

The alternative hasn't got much to recommend it either.

[trout]

Mike, I am sorry to hear about your wife. I am glad it was caught and 6 days of recovery is amazing to me. Pray it gets better from this point on.

[alad61]

I am sorry to hear of your wife's relapse Mike but I am very glad she has recovered so quickly and also admiring her for the decision she made. Sandy and I also pray for a continuing healthy recovery.

[subnut]

Mike,
Very sorry to hear about your wifr. My mother-in-law survived double mastectomy. We will keep both of you in our prayers.
Jerry