Ballast Shifter

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Albion
    Captain
    • Dec 2008
    • 651

    #1

    Ballast Shifter

    Ballast shifter.

    As you may have seen from previous threads (URL), this is an upgrade to a boat which is a dry hull design but uses a removable tech rack. This which contains all the workings, except the servo’s and drive motor, and can be removed from the hull to potentially be used in another hull. To date the tech rack has functioned flawlessly, but has a drawback which is a function of the single piston tank design. The piston tank control is fully proportional with fine tuning available for the final 20%. I have ballasted the boat to enable me to take the boat all the way to the bottom if needed. However the problem is that with an empty tank the hull is level and with a 90% full tank the hull is level, but at any point in between, or more than 90% the hull does not sit level. For this design of boat the attitude is not so critical, as the real boats tended to pivot about an axis near the stern. However with the tank filling from the bow, there is a tendency for the stern to rise as the bow fills, so when sitting with the sail just breaching the prop is very close to the surface and starts cavitating and chewing the air, especially if attempting a dynamic dive. Also I seem to find varying densities of water in my region and hence a device to fine tune my attitude would be useful (no not that attitude homeboy!!)

    Based on a suggestion by Andy (Subculture), back when I originally was building this boat I decided to add on a device to correct the attitude of the sub with any volume of tank fill. The current setup is configured with 2 x 6V SLA to give 12 v operation. In addition to the batteries I had a couple of small pieces of lead attached to the front of the Tech rack. I plan to replace the SLA with 4 x A123 batteries (http://www.a123systems.com/a123/products ) (to give a nominal 13.2Volts. these give me double to amp hours and weigh less than half the SLA’s. the weight difference (as lead) plus the existing ballast lead will then be moved backwards and forwards to balance the boat (well that’s the plan anyway).

    Additional Items required
    Low speed 380 motor (this was an old one out of the spares box, which I originally got from SWM)
    2 small micro switches for end stops
    4:1 toothed pulley’s and belt (http://www.motionco.co.uk/timing-pul...-25_35_50.html)
    Engel BTS – this is a fairly extravagant item for what it’s doing, but as I had it doing nothing in my box it’s basically free.
    Wire.

    So about 25 quids worth of bits for the ballast shifting parts, the main expense being the pulleys, plus another 25 quid for the batteries. I already have another use for the SLA’s so they aren’t wasted, and as the mAh was questionable for this boat it was something that was worthwhile doing anyway.

    First job was to strip down the battery end of the tech rack, and drill some holes to mount the motor, and for the jack screw. Also some holes in the third bulkhead to allow wires to pass through. Seemed quite simple so far but then realised I need some holes in the second bulkhead to also pass wires through. This meant stripping down the back end of the tech rack, which I was just about able to do without disconnecting anything.  I plugged the BTS in, and connected up the system using some old wire. Amazingly considering the BTS has sat around for a year or two, and has been flooded a few times, it all worked :) . Found a small space in the back of the tech rack, and with the wires attached wedged it in, and rebuilt the back end, with the wires running forward. It is a real rats nest of wires in there, but I’m not getting any glitching and all is working fine. At a later date if this is deemed the final configuration I will make the area slightly bigger and remove some of the excess wires (both the BTS, and the tank controller have about 300mm of cables to plug into RX when it is only 50mm away, and the controller has another bundle of cables to connect it to the piston motor, and again its v close).

    I next made up a bracket to mount the motor on and a couple more for the micro switches, then it was out with the iron and soldered the system together, and rebuilt the battery end (without the new batteries, which were still on order). Amazingly the system still worked.

    Original battery setup and lead weighed in at 711g. The new batteries should be 310g. I found I had a nice lump of lead which came in at 250g. Allowing 100G for the motor, pulleys, jack shaft and fixings gives me 50g to play with for final trimming.

    Space was tight up front so I extended the assembly to give more room, and did a final rewire. Everything assembled, everything worked, well it did until I tried two things together!!!!!!
    Attached Files
    Next time someone points out it takes 42 muscles to frown, point out it will only take 4 muscles to b1tch slap them if they tell you how mnay muscles you need to smile:pop
  • Albion
    Captain
    • Dec 2008
    • 651

    #2
    more pics..............

    Now here's where it all goes wrong.

    The ballast tank controller is proportional (markus reiger). So i set the tank to half full, then moved stick to adjust ballast. At the same time the tank emptied itself, and then refilled. I tired various positions of tank fill, but every time the ballast tank empties as if lost signal. As soon as tank empties, it refills again as if signal is restored.

    Any ideas?
    Attached Files
    Next time someone points out it takes 42 muscles to frown, point out it will only take 4 muscles to b1tch slap them if they tell you how mnay muscles you need to smile:pop

    Comment

    • He Who Shall Not Be Named
      Moderator

      • Aug 2008
      • 13405

      #3
      Maybe you have to reset the limit-switch activation/de-activation points?

      David,
      Who is John Galt?

      Comment

      • Subculture
        Admiral

        • Feb 2009
        • 2414

        #4
        If the ballast tank controller works fine on its own, then you might have some dirty wiring somewhere. I've had a similar problem with the Holland. Changed out the relay switcher for the ballast tank pump, with an ESC. The latter has a built in failsafe, which cut in intermittently- most frustrating. Might go back to the relay switcher. MAke sure the motor for the ballast shifter is well suppressed.

        Comment

        • Albion
          Captain
          • Dec 2008
          • 651

          #5
          Schoolboy error on the motor supression. - so fixed that first

          dirty wiring, very likely when you look at how much is crammed in there. In the first photo you can see green, black and yellow power cables for the ballast shifter motor, and the thin wire next to them is the signal cables for the ballast control.

          I stripped down the electronics end again, re routed wires until i have just power cables on starboard and signal on port. Even then the main ballast was still tripping unless the control board was mounted sideways on port side.
          Attached Files
          Last edited by Albion; 07-24-2011, 04:08 AM.
          Next time someone points out it takes 42 muscles to frown, point out it will only take 4 muscles to b1tch slap them if they tell you how mnay muscles you need to smile:pop

          Comment

          • Albion
            Captain
            • Dec 2008
            • 651

            #6
            99% done

            burnt one shifter motor out. Put the rack in the hull, hull in bath tub and tried to shift ballast. the mechanism jammed and burnt out motor:(

            had to strip[ down, new motor, and found a better way to mount batteries. They now sit nicely on top of the shifter. i lengthened the shifter area slightly to accommodate the long battery pack. the managed to simplify the wiring up front. If i give the shifter a really long blast, then the ballast tank will blow, but, little blips and no problem.

            Here's some photos of the rack, and also a nearly final trim, some lead balancing on the outside. In the bath igot it to be level with sail just breaching, then brought the bow up, then the stern up, simples

            Click image for larger version

Name:	full rack.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	88.7 KB
ID:	63895Click image for larger version

Name:	stbd side.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	91.5 KB
ID:	63896Click image for larger version

Name:	bats and ballast.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	86.8 KB
ID:	63897Click image for larger version

Name:	piston controller.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	89.8 KB
ID:	63898Click image for larger version

Name:	zero bubble.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	95.6 KB
ID:	63899Click image for larger version

Name:	bow up.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	96.6 KB
ID:	63900Click image for larger version

Name:	Stern up.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	88.6 KB
ID:	63901
            Next time someone points out it takes 42 muscles to frown, point out it will only take 4 muscles to b1tch slap them if they tell you how mnay muscles you need to smile:pop

            Comment

            • Albion
              Captain
              • Dec 2008
              • 651

              #7
              Ballast shifter in the field, one shot is a cruise past, the close ups show the ballast shifter at the end stops.

              Ironically i was also testing new new rescue boat, the koryu had to rescue the rescue boat
              Attached Files
              Next time someone points out it takes 42 muscles to frown, point out it will only take 4 muscles to b1tch slap them if they tell you how mnay muscles you need to smile:pop

              Comment

              • Subculture
                Admiral

                • Feb 2009
                • 2414

                #8
                Very nice. Regarding the burnt out motor, how about a pair of micro switches at each end like a piston tank?

                Comment

                • Albion
                  Captain
                  • Dec 2008
                  • 651

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Subculture
                  Very nice. Regarding the burnt out motor, how about a pair of micro switches at each end like a piston tank?
                  i had them already, but the mk 1 was a little flexible and the ballast weight snagged the inside of the hull
                  Next time someone points out it takes 42 muscles to frown, point out it will only take 4 muscles to b1tch slap them if they tell you how mnay muscles you need to smile:pop

                  Comment

                  • Subculture
                    Admiral

                    • Feb 2009
                    • 2414

                    #10
                    I notice now that you mentioned limit switches in an earlier post, just couldn't see any in the pictures you posted up.

                    Comment

                    • MFR1964
                      Detail Nut of the First Order

                      • Sep 2010
                      • 1514

                      #11
                      I like the inventive solution you've made, did the same with my type VII, only for balancing when i fire the torps (weightloss), from what i understand you use this device manually.
                      I've made a electrical connenction between the auto leveller and the balance device, this way the system will do everything by itself steered by the auto leveller, it's actuated when i switch on the torpedo system.




                      Greetings Manfred.
                      I went underground

                      Comment

                      • Subculture
                        Admiral

                        • Feb 2009
                        • 2414

                        #12
                        Do you get any problems with the mechanism oscillating backwards and forwards as a consequence of overshoot?

                        Comment

                        • MFR1964
                          Detail Nut of the First Order

                          • Sep 2010
                          • 1514

                          #13
                          Initially i had some problems due to the high revs of the motor, changed gears to a lower rev and the problem was solved.
                          I do have to note that steering of the e motor happens by using a ESC, the ESC in his turn gets the signal from the auto leveller, so depending on how high the angle is, the e motor will run faster or slower untill the final stop.
                          At that point the boat is complete level, when i turn off the torpedo system she stays in that configuration untill i fire the next torp and the story starts all over again.
                          I went underground

                          Comment

                          • Subculture
                            Admiral

                            • Feb 2009
                            • 2414

                            #14
                            Thansk, somethings to think about there.

                            Comment

                            Working...