microviper 10 esc stutter forward only

[satlite440]

ok sorry to have started a new thread.. i think h2ohaze has the same problem as i am haveing.. i think the root cause of the stuttering in all my servos with the adf2&lipogard&lpb in are due to the esc.. i have removed the power leads and rx connecters for the adf2-liopgard-lpb...

1 only stern/bow plane servos and rudder direct to rx along with esc

2 to elimanate the possabilty of rfi r/x antenna lead removed from s/d lug and set aside..

3 esc learned set up prior to vid start to elimanate that...



during the run i noticed that the esc led's would flicker during servo operation...so i think we are down to eather a bum rx(however since i beleave h20haze is running the sl8 r/x and i have the lepton6 that would in theory rule that out) or a bum esc....


NEED some help here..i'm stuck nowSwearing Smiley


esc stutter 001.MOV

[satlite440]

for a review this is the effect it is haveing on the whole set up..and with the lpb plugged in the r/x it comes on/off with the moter stutter...thanks for everones input&help so far....so what do you think dave.. need to send me the esc now or is there further diag i need to do??????





speed controler diag 003.MOV

[H2Ohaze]

If I can get to a high speed connection, will watch video. The two problems are motor stutter forwards; blow and possibly pitch leveled servo stutter. They may be related.

The test I wonder about is for the servos: everything hooked up per VIIC build...then remove just the ADF2 and see if servo stutter continues or goes away.

My suspicion is: when one unit is proved wrong you have a warranty defect; when two units fail you suspect an R&D or manufacturing problem. Or a problem innate with two different devices working together.

I have proved that my ADF2, when removed from the VIIC, causes the servo stuttering to go away.

BTW: I have replicated the motor stutter and the servo stutter with a Servo Tester, which takes the Rx out of the loop. It's not the Tx/Rx.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

ESC is underway. Sorry about the delay.

David

[satlite440]

no problem dave.i just wanted to be sure thats what we were chaseing.. as a cadillac engine/trans tech i loath the just throw parts at it.. i like to road test my theory's first.......and ho2haze look at the 1st vid in this thread and near the end look to see if your esc is lighting up when servo's are moved...you will see ..i was supprised..

[H2Ohaze]

Satlite, it will take me quite awhile to download that first vid from my house...or I can drive into town, half hour each way. And at house about 30% of the time I lose the vid and have to reload it. Can you just tell me what happens to the lights, and I can try to replicate? I'll continue trying to download...

David, can you tell me what is going on with this? Last time, we agreed that the ADF2 was the variable that determined whether servo chatter would occur or not...although it may be affected by something else, esc being one of many ideas. Then in the other thread I discussed possible experimenting with replacing esc first with another Viper 10, then with a different model/make. Something I was thinking about in future that might cost me $$.

Are you giving one to Satlite? We do have the same hesitation problems, I know that from the few bits of vid I was able to download. It's not Rx, the Servo Setter runs the esc and stutters forwards too. Should I get esc from you too?

And can you tell me which thread I should now be following more? My loading time is about a minute per thread. I do have multiple tabs open...


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Edit: Okay the first vid did finish loading and it didn't get dropped on two replays. Two things, and this is JUST IMHO, and I could be wrong:

1) You still haven't stated or shown whether the BLOW servo stops chattering when ADF2 removed. The other three servo's response is of course important, but not relevant in this case, since the ADF2 F/S side is supposed to affect only the blow servo.

2) No, the lights on my Viper do not flicker when at neutral and servos moved. They are on solid. But I learned way back with my Holland that you can get fooled by the lights. If the throttle is bumped even one tiny imperceptible step forward or backward, the lights will flicker. When you programed the esc to the radio, that is how neutral on your stick was selected.

If I bump the throttle even one notch, not only do the lights flicker, but I can get RF interference...IOW some servos don't like to have the throttle off neutral by a whisper. Not always, but sometimes. This is another source of twitching which I am careful to eliminate from all that testing I did. And I can see how the servos might affect the lights- IF the esc was already off neutral by a hair.

But it may not be a big prob for most people. When the throttle is not so close to neutral it didn't seem to be an issue for me. You might want to re-calibrate your esc to throttle stick and be sure you've got neutral where you want it. Or one experiment you can do now is to waggle your servos again, but send your throttle trim slide switch up or down a few steps and see if the lights suddenly come on solid, whatever the servos are doing.

[H2Ohaze]

As a quick followup: adding the UBEC (Caswell's external BEC) 5 amp to Rx channel 8, and cutting out red wire on esc channel 3 with special jumper, SD wired with everything in place otherwise: motor hesitation still present in forward; blow servo still chatters.

[satlite440]

i elimanated the adf2 by unhooking it at rx and power leads...vent/blow servo to r/x only..as well as other 3 servos only.. no adf2/lipogard...


when i moved the 4 servo's the red/green led's on esc would light up while in motion with the esc neutral/ stopped tx in middle/neutral with esc zeroed before vid start....


also if i go over 1/8th stick travel in forward..i start to get the stutter and flashing led's on esc

[H2Ohaze]

"i elimanated the adf2 by unhooking it at rx and power leads...vent/blow servo to r/x only..as well as other 3 servos only.. no adf2/lipogard..."

Just to make sure I understand: you also ran the motors when you did this? And couldn't get the blow servo to chatter? Or did it still chatter? I apologize for not understanding.


"when i moved the 4 servo's the red/green led's on esc would light up while in motion with the esc neutral/ stopped tx in middle/neutral with esc zeroed before vid start...."

Okay, I got that part of it now. So you HAD neutral dead on...and the lights still went off and on like Christmas when you moved the servos. I don't have that problem. If I had to wild guess it what? Maybe Rx, esc, RFI/EMI?

Weren't you using an E-Flite Lipo in a Vid I saw? How many mah and what was it's C rating? Another wild hair I just had was would a meager battery cause that? Like a lightweight heli battery? AKA Servos steal too much juice from the esc for it to stay awake? I don't know what that would be, maybe under 1000mah and 20C???

I think about four micro servos is all (an esc with) 1.2 amp BEC can handle, if I read right.


"also if i go over 1/8th stick travel in forward..i start to get the stutter and flashing led's on esc"

same here. And yes occasional flashes but both Viper 10s on my Holland flash like that with props on too, at least I think I remember that happening.

Well, good luck on it, I hope I've helped a little in all this verbiage I've been plastering you guys with. I don't know if getting another Viper 10 would be something for me to pursue as an experiment or not. You do have a prob that I don't have with the flashing lights. But I have all the rest.

[satlite440]

Just to make sure I understand: you also ran the motors when you did this? And couldn't get the blow servo to chatter? Or did it still chatter? I apologize for not understanding.

"with only servo's r/x and esc hooked up no servo chatter while the moters were running,but moter stutter still present in forward only.during stutter red/green led's on esc flicker together...."




Okay, I got that part of it now. So you HAD neutral dead on...and the lights still went off and on like Christmas when you moved the servos. I don't have that problem. If I had to wild guess it what? Maybe Rx, esc, RFI/EMI?

"myguess is internal to esc when moters start/stop voltage spike backfeeding through signal line to r/x affecting other componants.. rfi elimanated by removeing r/x antenna of s/d antenna lug and routed away from moters.."

Weren't you using an E-Flite Lipo in a Vid I saw? How many mah and what was it's C rating? Another wild hair I just had was would a meager battery cause that? Like a lightweight heli battery? AKA Servos steal too much juice from the esc for it to stay awake? I don't know what that would be, maybe under 1000mah and 20C???



"yes they are eflights 1200mha 2cell same rateing as my caswell's"


I think about four micro servos is all (an esc with) 1.2 amp BEC can handle, if I read right.

"don't know about that"

same here. And yes occasional flashes but both Viper 10s on my Holland flash like that with props on too, at least I think I remember that happening.

You do have a prob that I don't have with the flashing lights.

"that only happens with no throttle input just servo's.. was wondering if you could see if you's does too.you might have missed it.i only saw it when shooting vid and had not noticed it before so wanted to see if you had"

[H2Ohaze]

"that only happens with no throttle input just servo's.. was wondering if you could see if you's does too.you might have missed it.i only saw it when shooting vid and had not noticed it before so wanted to see if you had"

No Satlite, I really don't have that happen to me, I've checked. I keep my eyes on those lights a lot, esp when I'm pushing the throttle stick back to neutral. And I've thoroughly worked the servos in that state.

[H2Ohaze]

I just noticed something with my SD, I don't know if it's an important thing or not: My port motor is healthier than my starboard. It has more torque and more speed per throttle position. When coming out of neutral, it is also the first to spin up. Forward or reverse.

I thought at first it was friction in the drive-train, but I re-reamed both sides out and lubed. The driveshaft from prop to dogbone turn freely...if anything, the starboard prop-shaft has less friction than port.

If I remove the SD from the hull, put it in a stand and put my finger on each brass (upgraded from resin) coupler, I can stop either one at lower speeds, but the starboard takes less pressure to stall it out. At higher throttle, it merely is easier to slow down the starboard.

With it all hooked up to the drivetrain, the starboard propeller blades look more opaque---> they are spinning slower.

How much less torque and speed? Hard for me to quantify. It's noticable by eyeball...I guess I'd say the port prop is spinning 30% faster than starboard, but that is a wild guess, I don't have a tach on it.

Would this have any effect on the issues I have been having? And is it normal to have a diff in torque/speed between motors?

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

You've addressed friction in the seal bushing. So, all things being equal (and knowing that you're using one ESC to drive the two motors), I have to ask: did you rewire the ESC to the motors in series, or did you retain the parallel wiring of the two motors as delivered?

If things are in parallel, pour some water into the vent holes of the 'sick' motor as it's running slowely. As you do this hold the SD upside down so the water hits the brushes and commutator. Cleans 'em up good! Wrap everyting else in a towel before pouring the water.

David

[H2Ohaze]

Amount of friction in seal bushings roughly the same: with power off both couplings turn more or less easily in my fingers.

I didn't touch the wiring: still in parallel.

I don't see the typical vent holes in the motor can...is there one hiding at back plastic plate under the caps? Or next to the sheet metal tray? If so it would be difficult to get to; an eyedropper might work. Or I could just flood the whole motor if that wouldn't short out esc.

By holding SD upside down do you mean tray pointed at ceiling, receiver above motors, or tray parallel to floor, receiver down.

[satlite440]

i too noticed that 1 moter spins up before the other but figured thats a symptom of 1 esc 2 moters.evan in parallel .. votage will be present at the same time but amps to spin moters has to go through 1 moter 1st then the other at least thats how i see it with mine..dave would know. i thought it was a normal operateing condition so payed no mind to it..