Static and Dynamic Diving

[Slats]

Andy they don't intend to go deep - but the guys who have them and lost them needed either:
(A) so much speed that the lost control of the boat and it unintentionally went deeper
OR
(B) lost signal and had no ballast tank to blow
OR (C) ballasted the thing too low in the water to overcome the speed problem that loss in shallow water was also an issue.

J

[Subculture]

You guys must be diving pretty deep. I've known dynamic divers to get into difficulty, usually as a result of getting caught in weeds, which tends to happen with very quick boats like Delphins- the boat's nimbleness outwits the ability of the pilot/commander, or because the pressure hull is poorly designed.

The Robbe boat is a well designed bit of kit though, with a rigid cylindrical pressure vessel, which makes me wonder if the problem was something electrical rather than mechanical.

I wouldn't run a boat in a big lake without some form of location buoy or a pinger. The latter, with the use of a hydrophone almost guarantees the recovery of your pride and joy.

[Slats]

WOW! John! I'm going to borrow bits of that and put it in my article on ballast systems! Excellent description of the problem, in my opinion! I'll drink to THAT!

Guys a facinating thread - even though it is some way now from dynamic and static diving.

Mike pt 5 re DD relates to signal loss.
The use of an ESC in DD with an onboard fail safe that cuts the motor is good in that if you are submerged only by dynamic forces you should upon having the momentum halted come back up. If you are deep enough to not require the dynamic force to hold you under, killing the motor is still good as it means the boat won't continue under propulsion on a course into the deep. i.e. It might be easier to retrieve.

Rigging the planes up on a fail safe has limited effect in that planes require some momentum. With the motor off, the boat will still have some momentum for a little while, but there is no guarantee that this is enough to act with the planes to get you to a depth where the boats positive displacement can pop you back to the surface.

In short a ballast tank emptied at depth is the only reasonable way I believe to deal with this issue.

J

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Waste of time trying to compete with the Far East when it comes to volume electronic products. Added to that, a lot of it has already been done.

A lot of these ideas have been integrated into the 2.4GHZ sets, unfortunately none of this seems to have been ported over to the older bands. Sooner or later the large R/C companies will drop the older surface and air frequencies as the market for them diminishes to almost zero. Already a look in my local hobby store can't unearth a set for sale that isn't 2.4GHZ. It's really quite amazing how quickly it's swept away the older stuff.

When the day comes that you can no longer get a receiver or new TX from Futaba/JR/Sanwa et al, there may be an opportunity for a smaller outfit to exploit a niche market.

Now, that is an astute observation. I too am amazed at how (so it seems) quickly the transition has been to market exclusively multiplexed, high-frequency r/c gear. And the smart man today, who does offer the 75mHz (or 27mHz) later, will likely make a tidy profit for himself.

This is not lost on Mr. Caswell, I'm sure.

David,

[toppack]

. Sooner or later the large R/C companies will drop the older surface and air frequencies as the market for them diminishes to almost zero.

Yes, That has worried me also. That's why I bought up a lot the older receivers and servos, to match my Trusty ol' Xmitter. :)

[toppack]

it would help open up the flood-gates to those Wal-Mart morons who would eventually crowd us away from the shore

Okay, I think I understand what you're saying but it's difficult for me to see how the development of a new improved RC system would do that?:confused:
Since RC systems sales is dominated by Off-shore based companies already. It could be thought of as a World market since Futaba is sold world-wide, and has become the standard to compare other systems to.

[Subculture]

Waste of time trying to compete with the Far East when it comes to volume electronic products. Added to that, a lot of it has already been done.

A lot of these ideas have been integrated into the 2.4GHZ sets, unfortunately none of this seems to have been ported over to the older bands. Sooner or later the large R/C companies will drop the older surface and air frequencies as the market for them diminishes to almost zero. Already a look in my local hobby store can't unearth a set for sale that isn't 2.4GHZ. It's really quite amazing how quickly it's swept away the older stuff.

When the day comes that you can no longer get a receiver or new TX from Futaba/JR/Sanwa et al, there may be an opportunity for a smaller outfit to exploit a niche market.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

As I've said before, I have NO intention of turning one of my hobbies into a business. No fun in that!
I'm weird but Not that crazy! :DLOL:D

We're suggesting that people like Futaba need to change their ways. ;)
How would that effect your business to a great extent?

Wouldn't change a thing on this end, Rick. But, it would help open up the flood-gates to those Wal-Mart morons who would eventually crowd us away from the shore, just as they have done at the flight-line.

I like it the way it is now, just a small elite, playing with their toy submarines.

David,

[toppack]

As I've said before, I have NO intention of turning one of my hobbies into a business. No fun in that!
I'm weird but Not that crazy! :DLOL:D

We're suggesting that people like Futaba need to change their ways. ;)
How would that effect your business to a great extent?

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

You know, you two geniuses of the market-place have a great point there. And, I think the first radical change in the r/c equipment field could be initiated by this act of faith:

You two sell your houses and all your other stuff, invest in some machine tools, labor, and technical support; design your 'new' stuff, put it in a box, and sell it...

... and make a profit so you can keep selling it!

Bright ideas and astute observations are as cheap and plentiful as dirt, and as useless without the drive, discipline, and guts to make those bright ideas happen; it's the follow through and slugging it out, door to door, day to day, selling your crap that separates the boys from the girls here.

Me, Mr. Caswell, Mr. Bragging, and a few others are still at it, after decades of working in the game, because we have the above attributes. Those who didn't, sold out or quit outright. This hobby is littered with the bodies of those smart-guys who thought they could make a business of this activity.

Do you guys think you can make a go of this hobby commercially? Only one to find out, boy's and girl's!

You two got the brains -- but, do you have the balls to jump in and go commercial with your bright ideas? Come on in, the water's fine. But excuse me if you start taking on water and ask me for a lift, and instead I slip an anchor into your back pocket. It's only business, guys. Wanna play?

How about it, who's game?

Anyone? .... anyone?

Hello? .... Hey, is this thing on?

(insert cricket sounds here).

David,

[Subculture]

The technology is there to do this now. Personally, I'd rather the manufacturers spent money on that sort of innovation than keep bringing out new case designs every five minutes.

[toppack]

Change costs money. It's business.

Besides, make this hobby too cheap and we real r/c submariners (the one's who work at it and know the game) would find ourselves displaced off the flight-line just like what happened to the r/c plane guys once every idiot with two nickles could buy RTF stuff from China.

No thanks. I'm a 'pay your due's' sort on this subject. Let 'em pay, then play!



David,

David,
We weren't necessarily talking about a cheaper system, but a 'Better' system. If it could be perfected, that is.
Both receiver and Xmitter would be radical changes from what is used now, but I think it could be done.

PROGRESS! :)

[Kazzer]

Actually rick you can dynamically dive anywhere - you don't necessarily need a big operating area. And in fact a big lake I believe is one of the worst places for a Dynamic Diver.

Since the topic of a dynamic diver (DD) has been raised lets cut through the common myth of operation and why I believe these boats should only be used in controlled waters like a pool. ..........................etc. .....etc!

WOW! John! I'm going to borrow bits of that and put it in my article on ballast systems! Excellent description of the problem, in my opinion! I'll drink to THAT!

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Yes, If the receiver could be made to lock into the state of the last signal transmitted, without being effected by interferance noise-signals, that would be a Great system. :)
Doesn't seem that would be a very difficult thing to do?

Change costs money. It's business.

Besides, make this hobby too cheap and we real r/c submariners (the one's who work at it and know the game) would find ourselves displaced off the flight-line just like what happened to the r/c plane guys once every idiot with two nickles could buy RTF stuff from China.

No thanks. I'm a 'pay your due's' sort on this subject. Let 'em pay, then play!

David,

[toppack]

I'd like to see radios that only transmit when something has altered, i.e. a stick moved, switch thrown etc. This would save a lot of battery power in the TX, and this is the way TV remotes operate for instance.

Yes, If the receiver could be made to lock into the state of the last signal transmitted, without being effected by interferance noise-signals, that would be a Great system. :)
Doesn't seem that would be a very difficult thing to do?