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A question for the Masters of the craft

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  • A question for the Masters of the craft

    I have a Garry Gray 1/48 scale Skate Class, being completed as USS SEADRAGON (SSN-584). The bow planes on the Skates retract at full dive position, ~25 degrees. Is there an existing design for a retract mechanism that will do this in a realistic manner? Or would this be something that the Kevin McLeod Bow Plane Interlock device could be programmed to do? I have been entreated to do this model "up right" by HWSNBN and would like very much to do just that. I believe there are other hulls out there of this fine kit and am hoping that this action has been done in those other hulls. Pictures and drawings for any mechanism that will do this on this fairly large boat would be quite helpful! Depiction of how the mechanism gets attached to the two-level superstructure would be quite helpful, also.

    Thank you in advance!

    Bill

  • #2
    I am by no means a master of this craft and I do not know if any existing modules such as the bow plane interlock can be made to do this. However, I do recall John Dutton (not the Yellowstone one, the Australian one) managed his USS Nautilus, SSN-571, bow planes with an Arduino. The Arduino managed many operations on board including preprogrammed diving and surfacing routines. Those routines included a few lines of code to deploy and activate the bow planes. So far so good. I imagine a few lines of code could be added to "park" the planes at the required angle prior to retraction.

    Comment


    • #3
      Being well acquainted with Mr. Bill, I know the minute you said arduino, he's out of his element. Bill, never fear, I am here. I do know arduinos and I live right up the road.

      Tim

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by SubICman View Post
        Being well acquainted with Mr. Bill, I know the minute you said arduino, he's out of his element. Bill, never fear, I am here. I do know arduinos and I live right up the road.

        Tim
        I will see if I can find the material on John's Nautilus setup. Unfortunately John passed a way a few years ago but I have some of his notes and his YouTube channel is still active. He was completely self-taught and haunted Arduino boards and groups to ask questions. Wonderful guy and I really miss exchanging emails with him.

        https://www.youtube.com/c/Scratchbuildwithjohn-now
        Search for videos like "Nautilus SSN571 XX Hydro Mechanism"


        Fair warning, John has a ton of videos, probably hundreds. He care fully documented everything he did and we are better for it! He describes his construction of 3 large subs, plus other craft, including a Type VII, SSN-571, and a 688 class. You will be amazed at the level of scratch-building done by John. He generally bought radio systems, motors, and batteries. Everything else from hulls to pumps and valves was scratch-built.

        I do have the code for the retract sketch and the rest of the sub operations. He even had a PID control loop he developed to provide depth-keeping based on a transmitter switch that took a snapshot of depth. Cool stuff.
        Let me know if I can help.

        Steve
        SubCom Lonestar


        Comment


        • #5
          Don't overthink this:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb68bvbTvKc

          A bit of plastic, some gears, a servo and the Bow Plane Interlock unit.


          Bob

          Comment


          • #6
            Click image for larger version  Name:	5DA8B569-0F01-4AF7-BBA6-F50183DB734F.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	58.0 KB ID:	164111
            Originally posted by RCSubGuy View Post
            Don't overthink this:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb68bvbTvKc

            A bit of plastic, some gears, a servo and the Bow Plane Interlock unit.


            Bob
            The Skates bow planes actually went to an angle, then folded up into the bow. I read this was done to lessen interference to
            the sonar dome from noise from regularly retracted planes such as Nautilus.
            Of the 40,000 men who served on German submarines, 30,000 never returned.”

            Comment


            • #7
              A) Arduino is definitely out of the picture, as Tim noted above!!!! I have enough trouble even getting a battery and link monitor to work and have never actually gotten a BPI to work! I carry a stupid flip-phone!!!
              B) Das Boot is correct in that the planes have to be retracted in full dive position, so, no, there is not "over-thinking" involved. This thing will not be driven around with the bow planes permanently deployed. It's a beast of a hull and there is plenty of room to put something in there!
              C) I have seen Jon's stuff on YouTube and quite enjoyed watching! I watch all of Bob's videos whenever they get posted to YT.
              D) SubSteve- The Nautilus planes fold up and down in a similar manner to WWII and prior boats. Skates fold into the superstructure for stowage on the surface.

              Is Garry still with us? I haven't heard about or from him in eons! I met him at a Groton SubRegatta many years ago and found him to be a very pleasant fellow! In general, I am very pleased with the quality of this model kit! I've only found a couple of minor corrections to be made with engraved items. The GRP work is impeccable! Bob left a wealth of research material, but there are still many questions, like what did the snorkel head valve really look like and how was the snorkel whip antenna attached/deployed/ retracted? Same for the Sub ID beacon? What does an AN/BPS-12 Radar mast head look like? Etc. I have drawings and Training Aid Books, but nothing covering items such as these mentioned.

              Trivia: Did you know the AT-317 VLF antenna (Football) is the same one that was used on US bombers in WWII? Yup, it's true!

              I think Bob Harris got this hull from Steve Reichmuth sometime back in the early 2000s and fell into my hands after Bob's passing. Trying to get it up and runnable to honor Bob's memory (he worked on Skates as a Pacific fleet sonar technician) and show off this great model. It uses an OTW cylinder that will be modified to carry a bow retract servo in addition to the uppy-downy one.

              Anyway, thank you for the responses so far, if anyone comes up with anything, by all means, please post it up here!

              Take care,

              Bill

              Comment


              • #8
                Maybe angle the mechanism
                 
                Make it simple, make strong, make it work!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by wlambing View Post
                  A) Arduino is definitely out of the picture, as Tim noted above!!!! I have enough trouble even getting a battery and link monitor to work and have never actually gotten a BPI to work! I carry a stupid flip-phone!!!
                  B) Das Boot is correct in that the planes have to be retracted in full dive position, so, no, there is not "over-thinking" involved. This thing will not be driven around with the bow planes permanently deployed. It's a beast of a hull and there is plenty of room to put something in there!
                  C) I have seen Jon's stuff on YouTube and quite enjoyed watching! I watch all of Bob's videos whenever they get posted to YT.
                  D) SubSteve- The Nautilus planes fold up and down in a similar manner to WWII and prior boats. Skates fold into the superstructure for stowage on the surface.

                  Is Garry still with us? I haven't heard about or from him in eons! I met him at a Groton SubRegatta many years ago and found him to be a very pleasant fellow! In general, I am very pleased with the quality of this model kit! I've only found a couple of minor corrections to be made with engraved items. The GRP work is impeccable! Bob left a wealth of research material, but there are still many questions, like what did the snorkel head valve really look like and how was the snorkel whip antenna attached/deployed/ retracted? Same for the Sub ID beacon? What does an AN/BPS-12 Radar mast head look like? Etc. I have drawings and Training Aid Books, but nothing covering items such as these mentioned.

                  Trivia: Did you know the AT-317 VLF antenna (Football) is the same one that was used on US bombers in WWII? Yup, it's true!

                  I think Bob Harris got this hull from Steve Reichmuth sometime back in the early 2000s and fell into my hands after Bob's passing. Trying to get it up and runnable to honor Bob's memory (he worked on Skates as a Pacific fleet sonar technician) and show off this great model. It uses an OTW cylinder that will be modified to carry a bow retract servo in addition to the uppy-downy one.

                  Anyway, thank you for the responses so far, if anyone comes up with anything, by all means, please post it up here!

                  Take care,

                  Bill
                  RedBoat came up with the best solution so far. KISS.

                  David
                  Resident Luddite

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I agree with the RedBoat solution but you will still find value and/or need the Kevin McLeod Bow Plane Interlock. That circuit is really no less complicated than the John Dutton solution and John's Arduino code allowed you to park the planes at any angle. The BPI has the advantage of being off-the-shelf. wlambing, sorry for the confusion on the bow plane arrangement, I didn't mean to imply Nautilus and Skate were the same, just that a park-fold-disconnect scheme was required and John's solution was one way. Admitedly it was a small add to a much larger overall implementation of Arduino.
                    Would be nice if a Skate hull was available in a decent sized scale!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Redboat may very well have the answer!! Instead of trying to move the whole mechanism, start from a tilt and go from there! It could work! I will have to investigate to see if there is room available to do that. At some point, I'll let you guys know what turns out! Thanks again!!!

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