Peristaltic Pumps

[JHapprich]

To start with a quotation from the "Holland Class" thread:


QUOTE=Sam Victory;n163031]Redboat219，

Sometimes I do admire your imagination and creativity，but sorry I'm a big submarine enthusiast and I've made it very clear, breaking down the pros and cons of peristaltic pumps, so if you'd still like to use a peristaltic pump in your little submarine, go for it, if you feel it's reliable. It's true that there is no such thing as standardization in making submarines, everyone is entitled to use what they want, it's just that I prefer to accept and learn from those who have come before me and then get what I want from them and innovate. Those masters summed up their experience through years of practice is well worth for those of us who come after them to learn, if you think I have a point, please think twice.

If you still want to discuss about peristaltic pumps, please make a new thread and I will be happy to participate in the discussion, at the moment we are disrupting other people's threads.

V
[/QUOTE]


Hello!

I have been using peristaltic pumps and geared pumps alike in submarines for a long time now and the only thing i am looking at is the speed at which they are able to pump my ballast water. I had to replace one(!) Peristaltic pump because its plastic gear failed and thats it. I have NEVER EVER found a silicon or nylon or noprene tube getting brittle or rigid or whatever.
For me, it is like this: A gear pump is cheap, pumps fast, is leaking over time and introduces a watercycle open to the external pressure should there not be a valve that complicates things.There are 6 failing points( inlet tube connecting to endcap, inlet conneting to pump, pump casing, pump shaft seal, outlet tube connection to pump, outlet tube connection to ballast tank ). For any type of tank.
A peristaltic pump is expensive, pumps slow to medium volumes, presents a valve that keeps the water inside my tank and the external pressure only at the tubing between endcap and the first roller. There are two failing points, the connections to the endcap and the tank. It does not leak. For smaller tanks.

There is one Mr. Norbert Brüggen who has been selling a peristaltic pump system here in Germany for years...

I am a scratchbuilder.

My models are mostly around 1 metre in length +/-.

My first ballast system design used a gear pump and a semi-rigid ballast tank from plastic pipe.one endcap with the inlet/outlet, the other side was a piece of bicycle tube pulled over the open pvc end. In empty state, that rubber tube sat inside the plastic tube, it extended with filling of the ballast tank. Running nicely since 2004.

I am running modifications of that design with larger tanks/ motocycle tube / 6V peristaltic pumps @8,4V since 2015.

I am currently building a trim cell of 350ml with a piston ballast tank
and a 12V gear pump.

What is your PRACTICAL experience with peristaltic pumps in ACTUALLY RUNNING rc submarines?

Regards Jörg

[Sam Victory]

Hello sir!
Nice to discuss with you about peristaltic pumps, this post about peristaltic pumps seems to be a while ago. My knowledge of peristaltic pumps is more from my good friends, who are students of materials and engineering, than from my own few uses, and they have been operating peristaltic pumps for a few years for a large number of experiments in the lab, simple ones like titration of quantitative liquids. Honestly, every kind of pump is produced for a particular environment or need. Peristaltic pump flow rate is small, relatively short life is its main characteristic (so every once in a while the laboratory staff will have to replace the peristaltic pump). In fact, my personal experience may be particularly different to yours, perhaps we were born in different eras, there is a generation gap between us, but it does not matter, it is this hobby to bring us close together(Mr Merriman told me earlier), although I may be difficult to continue to carry on in the future. I remember my earliest touch with rc models (actual hands-on) was probably a remote control car I had in kindergarten, which was a birthday present from my dad. After that, I didn't touch anything like rc models for more than a decade. I first encountered RC submarines when I was doing research with my professor on the AUV project, although I was not in charge of the control module development but the image denoising algorithm field, but as my research progressed I became very interested in RC submarines, and afterwards I met a lot of enthusiasts on the forum, such as the master， David Merriman, Bob Martin ( I just had a discussion with him yesterday on Wechat about product representation). . etc

V

[rwtdiver]

To start with a quotation from the "Holland Class" thread:


QUOTE=Sam Victory;n163031]Redboat219，

Sometimes I do admire your imagination and creativity，but sorry I'm a big submarine enthusiast and I've made it very clear, breaking down the pros and cons of peristaltic pumps, so if you'd still like to use a peristaltic pump in your little submarine, go for it, if you feel it's reliable. It's true that there is no such thing as standardization in making submarines, everyone is entitled to use what they want, it's just that I prefer to accept and learn from those who have come before me and then get what I want from them and innovate. Those masters summed up their experience through years of practice is well worth for those of us who come after them to learn, if you think I have a point, please think twice.

If you still want to discuss about peristaltic pumps, please make a new thread and I will be happy to participate in the discussion, at the moment we are disrupting other people's threads.

V

Hello!

I have been using peristaltic pumps and geared pumps alike in submarines for a long time now and the only thing i am looking at is the speed at which they are able to pump my ballast water. I had to replace one(!) Peristaltic pump because its plastic gear failed and thats it. I have NEVER EVER found a silicon or nylon or noprene tube getting brittle or rigid or whatever.
For me, it is like this: A gear pump is cheap, pumps fast, is leaking over time and introduces a watercycle open to the external pressure should there not be a valve that complicates things.There are 6 failing points( inlet tube connecting to endcap, inlet conneting to pump, pump casing, pump shaft seal, outlet tube connection to pump, outlet tube connection to ballast tank ). For any type of tank.
A peristaltic pump is expensive, pumps slow to medium volumes, presents a valve that keeps the water inside my tank and the external pressure only at the tubing between endcap and the first roller. There are two failing points, the connections to the endcap and the tank. It does not leak. For smaller tanks.

There is one Mr. Norbert Brüggen who has been selling a peristaltic pump system here in Germany for years...

I am a scratchbuilder.

My models are mostly around 1 metre in length +/-.

My first ballast system design used a gear pump and a semi-rigid ballast tank from plastic pipe.one endcap with the inlet/outlet, the other side was a piece of bicycle tube pulled over the open pvc end. In empty state, that rubber tube sat inside the plastic tube, it extended with filling of the ballast tank. Running nicely since 2004.

I am running modifications of that design with larger tanks/ motocycle tube / 6V peristaltic pumps @8,4V since 2015.

I am currently building a trim cell of 350ml with a piston ballast tank
and a 12V gear pump.

What is your PRACTICAL experience with peristaltic pumps in ACTUALLY RUNNING rc submarines?

Regards Jörg


[/QUOTE]

Not sure what to make of this! The only reason that I am responding is because of the reference made to a "Holland Class" thread! I am assuming you are talking about the build blog that I started on the Holland?

Not sure were Jorg wants to go with this, but I am going to bow out for sure! I am extremely new to this RC submarine hobby, and I have currently built 13 submarines (95% 3D printed) and none of them can really be classified as a truly working submarine. I love to design, build, and experiment with all kinds of different methods, some have worked, but most have not! My current ballast system design may be completely off the wall in design and function, but these are my designs using methods that I have learned from this forum and from far more experienced builders than myself, and the Holland build may be a total failure (as have 90% of my builds to date as far as being a FUNCTIONAL submarine)

My pump design may or may not work! Geared pump, peristaltic pump, who knows, but I will find out! You guys know more about this stuff than I do, so I will learn from you!

Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat"

[redboat219]

I dont think you can compare the durability of peristaltic pumps used onboard RC subs and the laboratory. Even if you're using exactly the same pump in both application.

I've seen some videos showing persistaltic pumps filling a 500ml bag in 20 seconds and emptying in same amount of time. 40 seconds for a complete vent blow cycle but to simplify things let's round it off to a minute. How many vent blow cycles do RC submariners do when they run their boats in a day, i bet they don't even come to close to 60, but say they do, so you run your pump for an hour a day. Note that pump is run intermittently not continously for to complete 1 hour.

Compare that with the lab pump being used on test for hours or experiments left overnight.

[Sam Victory]

all right , all right... Peristaltic pumps are GOOD, gear pumps are good, diaphragm pumps are good, I just don't understand why this simple issue can be discussed for so long. In fact, choose the right pump for your submarine and make a reasonable assessment of it, such as reliability and practicality. Personally, I would definitely read the manual first when doing experiments and understand the parameters of the device in detail. If you blindly follow what you think to operate, with all due respect, the consequences will be serious after all, safety first. You use a substandard parameters of the solenoid valve for CO2, one operation no problem, two no problem, then several times, hundreds of times the operation? No one can guarantee. Maybe this is my attitude towards experiments or research, maybe in the field of models I also want to talk about reliability, who knows, maybe others just want to have fun and do not want to listen to my nonsense.

V

[neitosub]

I purchased some peristaltic pumps from Ebay years ago and they’ve been in storage for quite some time. When I pulled the casing apart, I noticed that the silicone tubing inside had “fused” at the spot where the rollers were pinching them. Mind you, this is from a pump that had been sitting in storage for years, if it’s been regularly ran during submarine season, I’m sure the result would be different.

The volume of water that a peristaltic pump displaces is a function of the number of rollers, the gearbox rpm, and the diameter of the tubing. By varying the tubing size and the motor rating, you can definitely get one of these pumps to pump an adequate amount of water. In a model like the Trumpeter Seawolf or Astute, I can definitely see these pumps being used.

Nate

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

all right , all right... Peristaltic pumps are GOOD, gear pumps are good, diaphragm pumps are good, I just don't understand why this simple issue can be discussed for so long. In fact, choose the right pump for your submarine and make a reasonable assessment of it, such as reliability and practicality. Personally, I would definitely read the manual first when doing experiments and understand the parameters of the device in detail. If you blindly follow what you think to operate, with all due respect, the consequences will be serious after all, safety first. You use a substandard parameters of the solenoid valve for CO2, one operation no problem, two no problem, then several times, hundreds of times the operation? No one can guarantee. Maybe this is my attitude towards experiments or research, maybe in the field of models I also want to talk about reliability, who knows, maybe others just want to have fun and do not want to listen to my nonsense.

V

I qualified on real submarines, worked as a Torpedoman, and later served as a hard-hat Diver. Those big-boy games required rigid adherence to 'approved practices' and 'rules'. Made sense, as sloppiness or 'departure from the SOP' in those environments could get you, and those around you, killed or injured.

And that's why I'm so enamored with r/c model submarines. I can do any ****ing thing I want -- I can experiment and play around to my heart's content and no one gets hurt (well, I almost killed Gene Berger with a bad HP bottle set-up, but that's the exception). In this game I'm free to try ANYTHING!

David

[redboat219]

David hit the nail on the head. Being unmanned you can afford to take risk. So what if a tube burst and floods the boat, you go out swimming or hire someone to retrieve your boat. Dry and replace any damaged components and you're ready to go out again. Not the case with a real life boat with 100 crew onboard.

[James Wittaker]

Hello sir!
Nice to discuss with you about peristaltic pumps, this post about peristaltic pumps seems to be a while ago. My knowledge of peristaltic pumps is more from my good friends, who are students of materials and engineering, than from my own few uses, and they have been operating peristaltic pumps for a few years for a large number of experiments in the lab, simple ones like titration of quantitative liquids. Honestly, every kind of pump is produced for a particular environment or need. Peristaltic pump flow rate is small, relatively short life is its main characteristic (so every once in a while the laboratory staff will have to replace the peristaltic pump). In fact, my personal experience may be particularly different to yours, perhaps we were born in different eras, there is a generation gap between us, but it does not matter, it is this hobby to bring us close together(Mr Merriman told me earlier), although I may be difficult to continue to carry on in the future. I remember my earliest touch with rc models (actual hands-on) was probably a remote control car I had in kindergarten, which was a birthday present from my dad. After that, I didn't touch anything like rc models for more than a decade. I first encountered RC submarines when I was doing research with my professor on the AUV project, although I was not in charge of the control module development but the image denoising algorithm field, but as my research progressed I became very interested in RC submarines, and afterwards I met a lot of enthusiasts on the forum, such as the master， David Merriman, Bob Martin ( I just had a discussion with him yesterday on Wechat about product representation). . etc

V

Why did you quit, young man? This hobby needs fresh blood, and without new people joining it, the hobby may disappear in the near future! Well, I admit that we old timers do get stubborn sometimes, and that makes you younger generation feel out of place, doesn't it? I understand your choice to leave for your bright future, maybe you have more important things to do, but if one day you still want to continue to communicate with us, you are always welcome, sincerely.

[James Wittaker]

I purchased some peristaltic pumps from Ebay years ago and they’ve been in storage for quite some time. When I pulled the casing apart, I noticed that the silicone tubing inside had “fused” at the spot where the rollers were pinching them. Mind you, this is from a pump that had been sitting in storage for years, if it’s been regularly ran during submarine season, I’m sure the result would be different.

The volume of water that a peristaltic pump displaces is a function of the number of rollers, the gearbox rpm, and the diameter of the tubing. By varying the tubing size and the motor rating, you can definitely get one of these pumps to pump an adequate amount of water. In a model like the Trumpeter Seawolf or Astute, I can definitely see these pumps being used.

Nate

Yeah... of course you can use it for small subs like trumpeter 1/144 Seawolf or Astute，and such a pump could become a simple component within the WTC. However for big subs (such as 1/72 or 1/96 Akula?), it is obvious that other pumps should be more reliable .

[neitosub]

Yeah... of course you can use it for small subs like trumpeter 1/144 Seawolf or Astute，and such a pump could become a simple component within the WTC. However for big subs (such as 1/72 or 1/96 Akula?), it is obvious that other pumps should be more reliable .

I don’t see peristaltic pumps being used for anything larger than 1/96, the exception being the 1/72 Revell U-boats. Past 300ml, a gear pump will get the job done much faster.

[DrSchmidt]

In a big boat peristaltic pumps are ideal for the negative tank. You van have a big ballast tank with a rotary pump that almost takes the boat beneath the surface and the rest is done with a negative tank that is controlled via a peristaltic pump. They are ideal for that purpose because they can adjust the volume of water in the tank quite accurately (they are used for dosing purposes).

[James Wittaker]

Exactly, I think a piston tank could do so, too.

[JHapprich]

In a big boat peristaltic pumps are ideal for the negative tank. You van have a big ballast tank with a rotary pump that almost takes the boat beneath the surface and the rest is done with a negative tank that is controlled via a peristaltic pump. They are ideal for that purpose because they can adjust the volume of water in the tank quite accurately (they are used for dosing purposes).

ABSOLUTELY! this is the setup of my 1/50 Whiskey Long Bin.

[rwtdiver]

I have a piston tank ready to go, just need a submarine that I can install it in! It does eliminate any pumps! Except for the piston pump!:-))

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftbmbgRnpHI

Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat"