Another ARKMODEL VII Build Blog

[rwtdiver]

Right stick: left-right, rudder; up-down, bow planes

Left stick: left-right, nothing; up-down, throttle

Back buttons on left side: stern planes

Back buttons on right side: ballast flood-drain/blow

David

Thank you David for the clarification on the proper set up on the VEX TX!



Would you verify from the drawing that I have it correct? It will take me sometime to get to know this set up. I am going back into all my subs and reset them all to this set up.

Thanks again for all the help!

Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat"

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

OK!

You gentlemen have convinced me that my idea is not practical for submarines! I have always enjoyed experimentation, but I do understand the wheel has already proved itself! The other thing that really does not it practical, is the fact that I run my boats in a small swimming pool (30' long) only! Health issues prevent me from going out to lakes or ponds. Trying to run a 5' Type VII boat in 30' really does not give you time to get a good running dive before hitting the opposite end of the pool!

I will go ahead and set my dive planes on two separate sticks on my TX! I am using a 6 channel Vex radio system, so I will have some questions as to what would be the correct set up on the sticks! I will put the ballast pump on the back side #5 or #6 channel button switches.

Thanks again for all the help and advice! I just keep learning (mostly the hard way) :-))

Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat"

Right stick: left-right, rudder; up-down, bow planes

Left stick: left-right, nothing; up-down, throttle

Back buttons on left side: stern planes

Back buttons on right side: ballast flood-drain/blow

David

[rwtdiver]

OK!

You gentlemen have convinced me that my idea is not practical for submarines! I have always enjoyed experimentation, but I do understand the wheel has already proved itself! The other thing that really does not it practical, is the fact that I run my boats in a small swimming pool (30' long) only! Health issues prevent me from going out to lakes or ponds. Trying to run a 5' Type VII boat in 30' really does not give you time to get a good running dive before hitting the opposite end of the pool!

I will go ahead and set my dive planes on two separate sticks on my TX! I am using a 6 channel Vex radio system, so I will have some questions as to what would be the correct set up on the sticks! I will put the ballast pump on the back side #5 or #6 channel button switches.

Thanks again for all the help and advice! I just keep learning (mostly the hard way) :-))

Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat"

[redboat219]

If you want it simple maybe you could try what Nate (Neitosubs) got planned for his 1/35 Type II U boat, fixed bow planes.

[wlambing]

Often forgotten: Hydrodynamic forces of the hull itself, Plus drag from the sail. Always best to keep the planes on separate servos. Angle keeper on the stern planes, with ability to override and bow/sail planes on manual (ability to be trimmed) has been the way to go for many, many years. Why try to reinvent the wheel??

A real submarine driver.

[redboat219]

Romel,

I use stick manual control only. I never liked electronic over-rides when I was flying RC aircraft, and I do not use them in my submarines. "Simple Stick Man" Explain to me why if both stern and bow planes are going in the same direction (bow plane up, stern plane up) why the Type VII at a reasonable speed would not rise at even keel to the surface! Or (bow plane down, stern plane down) why it would not dive at even keel below the surface.

As I explained above with my drawing, I total understand why this would not work on ALL boats. But the Arkmodel type VII Has stern and bow planes that are well below the totally surfaced boat water line, and why using them (same direction) in conjunction with the ballast system, at a reasonable speed, why the boat would not rise or dive at an even keel?

I may be way out in left field with my idea, but it seems like it would work to me!!!

Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat"

As Bob said

If you have both planes working in the same direction (IE: forward planes down and stern planes up), you'd think that it would simply sink or rise on the level, but in practical application it doesn't work that way. Hydrodynamic forces and different overall surface area will mean one end or the other will sink faster than the other, and you'll have no way to correct the imbalance.

Bob

Yes both dive planes are below waterline and theoretically would work but in real life lots of variables can affect how they work. Your bow plane are expose to direct water flow while your rear planes are shielded by the hull AND at same time are exposed to direct water flow coming from the props so they either get less or more water flowing over them than the bow planes so forces acting on them will be different.

Not saying it won't work but no assurance your boat goes up or down on even keel.

[rwtdiver]

Aren't you suppose to connect the rear planes to the automatic pitch controller?

With coupling the front and rear dive planes off one channel either electronically or mechanically I know that they have to move in opposite directions.

using leading edge of planes for reference,
front plane down --- rear plane up
Front plane up -- rear plane down

Romel,

I use stick manual control only. I never liked electronic over-rides when I was flying RC aircraft, and I do not use them in my submarines. "Simple Stick Man" Explain to me why if both stern and bow planes are going in the same direction (bow plane up, stern plane up) why the Type VII at a reasonable speed would not rise at even keel to the surface! Or (bow plane down, stern plane down) why it would not dive at even keel below the surface.

As I explained above with my drawing, I total understand why this would not work on ALL boats. But the Arkmodel type VII Has stern and bow planes that are well below the totally surfaced boat water line, and why using them (same direction) in conjunction with the ballast system, at a reasonable speed, why the boat would not rise or dive at an even keel?

I may be way out in left field with my idea, but it seems like it would work to me!!!

Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat"

[redboat219]

Aren't you suppose to connect the rear planes to the automatic pitch controller?

With coupling the front and rear dive planes off one channel either electronically or mechanically I know that they have to move in opposite directions.

using leading edge of planes for reference,
front plane down --- rear plane up
Front plane up -- rear plane down

[rwtdiver]

Using the below design shown.



I am suggesting using this set up on the Arkmodel VII because both the stern and bow planes are located well below the water surface even when the boat would be totally surfaced. My thought is that if they both work in conjunction with each other and if you are moving at a reasonable speed that the boat would submerge and surface at more of a level attitude rather than a nose down or nose up attitude.

I do realize that this design might not work on all boats, but it seems to me it would give you a better control on the diving and surfacing of the boat when you only have to think about a one stick operation. And if you utilize your throttle and dive plane sticks together (soft touch) you would have a better control of the boat. Again, I know this would not work on all boats, the the type VII ??

Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat"

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

I have a question about setting up the aft and forward dive planes!

Why could you not have them both operate from one channel on your TX (transmitter)? It would mean when you dive they would both go into dive mode at the same time!

Input appreciated.

Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat"

Bad ju-ju! Keep them separate. Like linking your steering wheel to the hand-brake.

David

[rwtdiver]

I have a question about setting up the aft and forward dive planes!

Why could you not have them both operate from one channel on your TX (transmitter)? It would mean when you dive they would both go into dive mode at the same time!

Input appreciated.

Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat"

[rwtdiver]

Today was spent pulling wire through the conduit that runs through the ballast tank!





Needless to say it is very time consuming! There is going to be a lot of soldering work to do to connect up the servos and the ESC's to the receiver. The two rear servos and the two ESC are mounted in the stern compartment, and the receiver is mounted in the bow compartment to keep it away from electronic noise possible from the drive motors and the pump motor!

And of course the servo and ESC wires are not long enough to get back to the receiver, and even if they where you could not possibly pull the wire through the wire chase with the plugs on the wires. So lots of soldering to do. No problem!!!

Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat"

[rwtdiver]

Note that David installed caps on his LPB even if they'll only be used intermittently.



You can solder a single 0.1 uf across the motor terminals to reduce motor noise.

Romel,

I will certainly install one on the pump as your photo shows! I was not aware that the cap could be installed that way! Always learning!!

Thank you very much for your information!

Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat"

[redboat219]

Note that David installed caps on his LPB even if they'll only be used intermittently.



You can solder a single 0.1 uf across the motor terminals to reduce motor noise.

[rwtdiver]

Don't forget to cap the pump.

Romel,

The pump is incased in a complete [plastic cover, no place to go to ground! Thanks for your input. The pump will not get used anywhere close to what you use the main drive motors. should not be a problem for me.

Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat"