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Integrity or lack thereof

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  • Integrity or lack thereof

    I should probably just let this go. Perhaps it's too early. Maybe I haven't had enough coffee yet. Could be I'm just a generally grumpy guy, but...

    I was emailed last night by a good customer who let me know that he was approached by a member here on the forums requesting that he forward the digital files for the Nautilus Drydocks Typhoon submarine kit at a greatly reduced price over the (exceptionally reasonable) retail price on the Nautilus Drydocks.

    To this gentleman, I am aware of who you are. While you may think that it's no big deal to make this request of someone to share out files, I assure you that the request is nothing short of asking someone to support you in theft, plain and simple. Randy and I worked hard on those files, and obtaining them from somewhere other than our store takes money from us and from the hobby as a whole.

    I hope the weather is nice over there in the UK.

    I'll be watching.

    Click image for larger version

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  • #2
    Cool but sunny.

    Not guilty your honour, I make my own magic!
    Last edited by Subculture; 03-17-2021, 06:04 AM.
    DIVE IN! Go on, go on, go on, go on, GO ON! http://www.diveintomodelsubmarines.co.uk

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    • #3
      Can you ban this individual?

      Comment


      • #4
        Ellie and I have been professionally involved in this game for nearly half-a-century. There has always been theft by the 'minor' players: It's an easy matter to take someone's work, use it as a master, and produce tooling from which GRP, resin, or vacuformed parts can be manufactured. I've seen my work being sold by such pirates at conventions. Most of this theft goes undetected so I can't say to what degree we've been deprived of income because of such acts of theft. It is most disheartening!

        Now, in the age of the robots, such theft -- just as recounted by Bob -- is so much easier as the thief today needs no model-building skill (FEW have any model-building skills today) to carry out his act of theft; just steal the file, sell it, or plug it into a printer, sit back and enjoy profits that belong to the owner of the files.

        There is another form of theft. Those who willfully fail to assign attribution to the authors of information. Do your best to give credit where credit is due. Acknowledge your experts, don't treat them like public drinking-fountains.

        David
        Big Fish in a very Small Pond
        Resident Luddite

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        • #5
          I can completely relate to this sort of betrayal. When I was still producing high end model marine steam engines and boilers, some of the competitors and new companies popping up were blatantly knocking off aspects of my unique designs that were hard won by 100’s of hours of refined design and claiming as their own. The worst betrayal came from a well known (and at the time a friend) in the U.K. who I openly trusted and privately shared and upcoming finished design for a engine and boiler that address a number of typical manufacturing challenges that hadn’t been solved to date until that design. Before I could get it into production his business partners son took the designs and started his own company and praised himself left and right on his website for the design. The final straw was the overseas copy cats.

          Niche hobbies and markets such as submarines and marine steam equipment need loyal support from enthusiasts. It takes a lot of work and huge sacrifice to run these mom and pop businesses at almost no profit for the work put into them. Most are run by the passion for the hobby. The original works and offerings produced by these individuals and companies is what keeps the hobby alive.

          The copy cats and thieves undermine the hobby and hurt the mom and pop companies. They offer no advancement to the hobby with unique products as they rely on copying others. Most times they are in it for the profit and not the passion and quickly close up shop once they figure that out. By then the damage has most likely already been done to the original owners of the design.

          In every hobby and market there will always be those customers and enthusiasts who are always searching for getting something at a lower price without looking at the bigger picture. I learned a longtime ago that some people know the price of everything but the value of nothing.

          I’m sorry you are having to deal with this. Especially after all you have done for this hobby.

          Nick

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          • #6
            Bob,
            It is very upsetting that this happened. It may have been innocent in intention, but in fact it is stealing. It can happen not realizing the implication. As an example, the image you posted showing a thief stealing a file. Did you make that? Did you find it on the web? It may be a royalty free image or you may have the rights to it, but this day and age some things are going on because it is a common practice and not everyone knows it is wrong. Finding an image on the web and using it may be stealing. The person that came to you was put in a tough situation, but I am certain he said no and did the right thing.
            .stl files are traded and shared all the time. I am glad the person that purchased the file was a person of integrity. I hope the person that wanted the file accepted the no and realized his mistake and apologized.

            peace,
            Tom
            If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

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            • #7
              Sorry to say! Todays world, and some people just plain do not care!!

              Sorry this happened to you Bob! But I am also very pleased you are on his case!! Is there anyway you could do some kind of a copy right on your files that might stop this kind of file movement?

              Rob
              "Firemen can stand the heat"

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              • #8
                Copyrighting one's IP is easy. Enforcing it is anything but. (A patent is different.)

                Rampant digital theft is the reason I have never sold any of my 3D files online; it's too easy for someone to take weeks (or months) worth of work and give / sell it to someone else. Other than have them sign an NDA, your best recourse is to price the work high enough to discourage people from giving away what they shelled out their hard-earned shekels for, though they can try to re-coup their initial outlay by offering the files for a percentage of what they paid and hope to sell it in quantity. This has been going on as long as file-sharing of any kind has been available.

                It's very common to post examples of my work and get bombarded with PMs from people asking me to post the files on Thingverse so they can have them for free, and then whine when I won't. They don't have the slightest clue as to the amount of effort it takes to do the work. If someone wants to post their work for free, have at it; I get the whole sharing thing, but for models I generate that require a significant amount of my time, it isn't going to happen.

                The research to gather reference material to accurately build a submarine often takes weeks. The process of modeling can take months. For 3D printing, there's a Groundhog Day cycle of printing and testing before the hull is RC-worthy, which takes a lot more effort than creating an accurate 3D mesh of the exterior. Due to it not being a physical object, some have no qualms stealing it.

                There's also a prerequisite that is often overlooked. Unless you're a digital savant, modeling at a professional level requires formal training and years of experience to be able to create a complex mesh efficiently and rapidly. This gets factored into an estimate when a project is planned, adding to the cost --and loss when data is stolen.

                CC

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by CC Clarke View Post
                  [FONT=Calibri]

                  It's very common to post examples of my work and get bombarded with PMs from people asking me to post the files on Thingverse so they can have them for free, and then whine when I won't. They don't have the slightest clue as to the amount of effort it takes to do the work. If someone wants to post their work for free, have at it; I get the whole sharing thing, but for models I generate that require a significant amount of my time, it isn't going to happen.
                  I've been hit with this left and right as well. "It's a 3D file... it must be FREE!" People get downright ornery when you actually ask to get paid for your work.

                  Crazy days we live in!


                  Bob

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SubHuman View Post

                    I've been hit with this left and right as well. "It's a 3D file... it must be FREE!" People get downright ornery when you actually ask to get paid for your work.

                    Crazy days we live in!


                    Bob
                    Totally agree Bob! Crazy days we live in for sure! I honestly do not understand why anyone in this hobby would complain about your 3D file pricing!? Lack of understanding of what it takes to design and setup these files is the only reason I can think of! I personally do not have the knowledge or the know how to do it. I have 4 sets of 3D files that I purchased from you that have produced 4 beautiful submarines. The combined cost was $200.00. Try buying one quality plastic hull kit for under $100.00!

                    The other fact is, try finding an Astute or Redoutable kit from any manufacturer! And if you did it most likely would be more than $50.00.

                    Let these people go Bob! You offer a great quality product at an extremely fair price!

                    Rob
                    "Firemen can stand the heat"

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