Thoughts on LED/Lights used in our submarines

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  • trout
    Admiral
    • Jul 2011
    • 3545

    Thoughts on LED/Lights used in our submarines

    Manfred posted "Maybe it's a idea to start up a thread with all our encounters for using lights on subs, so we get a central knowlegde bank, i really want to know if there is a permanent solution, would make live easier."

    So here is a thread for this topic.

    On my Gato there are issues of running wires and LEDs on the outside of the wtc (in the wet) even if applying silicon grease. I think I get extra corrosion because the test bed is a chlorinated pool.

    A long time a go, in a galaxy...never mind, I was talking to Kevin and he mentioned a light source inside a WTC and shining through the WTC. I have pondered this and Manfred's idea made me put an idea down to share and get comments. The beauty is there is no need to seal the electronics because they are not in the wet.
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    What are your thoughts on this?
    What other solutions work for you?
    If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.
  • He Who Shall Not Be Named
    Moderator
    • Aug 2008
    • 12253

    #2
    A sweal idea!
    Who is John Galt?

    Comment

    • redboat219
      Admiral
      • Dec 2008
      • 2735

      #3
      Just a theory here, wouldn't some of the light be lost through internal reflection in the curved wall of the wtc resulting in a dimmer light?

      Maybe you could mount it on the endcap instead?
      Make it simple, make strong, make it work!

      Comment

      • MFR1964
        Detail Nut of the First Order
        • Sep 2010
        • 1290

        #4
        Tom,

        This could work, but i wonder how mucht light you will loose through the wall of your SD, i hope it won't deflect the light too much (lightleaks), it's a ideal situation for bigger SD's like yours.
        I've chosen to go horizontal, because the room under the upperdeck is stuffed with foam, so little or no space to get the other connector onto the Magnetic Optical Connector( 10 points for inventing this word), i've got me a spare SD so i can do some evel experiments if you like.

        Manfred.

        edit, da**it Romel was faster!!!!!
        Last edited by MFR1964; 12-29-2012, 12:11 PM.
        I went underground

        Comment

        • trout
          Admiral
          • Jul 2011
          • 3545

          #5
          Great thoughts! O.K., detour time....I will test the theory. Post more later.
          Built into end cap is a great idea too! hmmm....Romel, I might play with that too! Manfred, yes a bigger SD makes the difference!
          If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

          Comment

          • Scott T
            Commander
            • May 2009
            • 378

            #6
            Not sure exactly how the characteristic of fiber optic are, but what if you drilled a hole in
            the WTC and siliconed a short length of fiber optics that you could continue with external
            with a coupling (heat shrink) and some more fiber optic. That way the light would follow the fiber optic and
            not get sidetracked into the wtc. Maybe a short piece of fiber optic glued into a hole in the endcap.

            Scott T

            Comment

            • He Who Shall Not Be Named
              Moderator
              • Aug 2008
              • 12253

              #7
              I like Scott's idea -- attenuation of light at the connection is reduced. But, you are committed to location once you set the fiber into the wall of the WTC.

              Good stuff, guys.

              Yeah, Romel will keep you on your toes ... now if he would only finish his first r/c submarine!!!!!!
              Who is John Galt?

              Comment

              • redboat219
                Admiral
                • Dec 2008
                • 2735

                #8
                Manfred I noticed you're using bare optical fibers, some of the light may be leaking through the sides of the fiber. One way to avoid this is to put some cladding around the OF. The interface between the walls of the cladding and FO now behaves as a mirror. You could coat the length of the FO with silver or even white paint then apply a layer to black paint to seal and protect the reflective layer.

                Also, even though there's a built in reflector inside the LED you may need to recontour the dome top of the LED which spreads the light out. Maybe even put a small lens between the LED and FO bundle to concentrate the light.

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                Last edited by redboat219; 12-29-2012, 08:14 PM.
                Make it simple, make strong, make it work!

                Comment

                • trout
                  Admiral
                  • Jul 2011
                  • 3545

                  #9
                  Originally posted by redboat219
                  You could coat the length of the FO with silver or even white paint then apply a layer to black paint to seal and protect the reflective layer.
                  Romel, I am in agreement with you on the coating. In a network FO cable, there are two types of glass used, the core and the cladding. The claddings design is to reflect/redirect light trying to escape out of the core (its refractive index is different than the core). I doubt plastic FO is built like the network FO and lacks a true cladding. So a silver coating sounds like a great suggestion to redirect light. Great stuff. Played with some ideas, might be up late tonight. I love the exchange of ideas like this.
                  Last edited by trout; 12-31-2012, 04:42 AM.
                  If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

                  Comment

                  • trout
                    Admiral
                    • Jul 2011
                    • 3545

                    #10
                    Here are some proof of concept and quick discoveries.
                    The magnets will hold fine, however, they may or may not align perfectly. I could get a small offset and that may impact how much light gets through. I saw some (albeit small) reduction of light intensity between going through the wall of the WTC or directly holding the FO to the light source.
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                    Some things that impact this "test" is the ends were not polished and smooth/flat. So that will impact the results. In theory if the ends were cleaned up we would get even better transmission rates. As an added detriment, I put a 90 degree bend in.
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                    In holding the light source directly, i noticed that just a small distance away would cause a huge difference in amount of light transferred.
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                    Here you can see the difference of just a few mm of space and the difference in intensity. you can also see how some light is lost from the sides.
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                    Here is a test of holding the light source close to the cylinder wall and placing the FO close to the opposite side wall.
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                    I am encouraged by this quick testing and I will move forward with more testing later (maybe when working on the Skipjack). But I walk away with a couple of discoveries and foremost is that the light source needs to be as close as possible to the wall of the cylinder and the FO will need to be as close to the opposite wall. I could also put an LED inside three magnets and not have to build an elaborate holder and circuit board.
                    Some other things to try will be filling the distance from the LED to the cylinder wall in the magnet with clear resin to see if that helps overcome distance away from wall. Coating FO with silver to see if even more light is directed to the end.
                    That is all the experimenting I will do for now. It is on the drawing board, but I need to get back to my other build.
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by trout; 12-31-2012, 05:10 AM.
                    If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

                    Comment

                    • MFR1964
                      Detail Nut of the First Order
                      • Sep 2010
                      • 1290

                      #11
                      You're a busy man Tom, you can create a kind of lens by slightly heating the end of your optic cable, when it is starting to bloom, let it cool down, this will create a better lightsource at the end, use a candle or a cigarette lighter to do this.
                      About getting the led as close as possible at your optic fiber, since the toppart of a led allready is watertight, drill some holes into your testpiece, you can slide your hollow magnets over them, the magnet itself will become your connector for your optic fiber, by using some 2k glue you can make the toppart of your led watertight.
                      This wil simplefy your idea even more, 90 degree angles are possible, only keep in mind that the angle must not succeed the diameter of your fiber, this way the light will have a smooth ride through the corner.

                      Manfred.
                      I went underground

                      Comment

                      • trout
                        Admiral
                        • Jul 2011
                        • 3545

                        #12
                        Thank you Manfred! I appreciate your thoughts and ideas. I will continue to chew on this and make notes.
                        If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

                        Comment

                        • KevinMc
                          Commander
                          • Feb 2009
                          • 305

                          #13
                          Hi Tom,

                          Hey, this is a really neat idea! Although I expect that in the end the lights will come to be a little dimmer than what you can get with direct placement of an LED in the wet you'll save so much trouble by keeping the extra wires/connections inside the hull. Not to mention that today's LEDs are so powerful you really don't need them running at full brightness for scale levels anyways.

                          I'll be watching!
                          Kevin McLeod - Oscar II driver
                          KMc Designs

                          Comment

                          • trout
                            Admiral
                            • Jul 2011
                            • 3545

                            #14
                            Kevin, it was talking to you that inspired the idea, so credit goes to you!
                            If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

                            Comment

                            • trout
                              Admiral
                              • Jul 2011
                              • 3545

                              #15
                              Here is an experiment I did, 30+ years ago. It was an experiment to see if electronics would survive in cast resin. I forgot about this thing, until my son found it (it's his now). It still works. I used an old alarm system magnetic reed contact as my on-off switch.
                              I know this has nothing to do with subs, but maybe it could for future inventions.
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                              If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

                              Comment

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