Scratch build Soviet Project 661 Anchar "Papa" Class SSGN K-222 1/120 Scale.

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  • HardRock
    replied
    Go Dave. Onward for the bottom mould.

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  • Davidh
    replied
    Thanks David.

    As usual, very good photo's.


    David H

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  • He Who Shall Not Be Named
    replied
    This is how I gauge the wall thickness of the rubber glove mold. Templates for specific stations are cut from cardboard. The annular space -- wall thickness of the rubber tool -- defined by the surface of the master and template.

















    David

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  • Davidh
    replied
    Hello all,

    So I had pressed the clay all the way around the equator of the model and then once pressed down took the edge of a ruler, pressed it against the edge of the model and the base and simply screed it along picking up the excess clay and making for a very flat and straight line around the base with a smooth flat surface going right up to the edge of the model.

    I now mixed up a big batch of Silicon resign. I estimated that this top mold would take about a litre and a half of material. One thing is for sure and that you want to be certain that the master is exactly what you want. A major mistake can be expensive. I have taken HWSNBN's advce and have done the pour over several layers over a period of almost a week. I first start off with a layer that is about 5-10mm thick and poured along the base for starters. This filled in the cavity along the sides between the hull and the square strip that surrounds the model. I then made up another batch and added some thixo hardener to thicken up the silicon and then poured over the rest of the master. Making it thicker means that it wont run so easily down the sides. It also means that I can rough up the rop surface even though this is unnecesary for this round as I will be putting on another two layers. The final layer will get the real roughing up.

    This inital layer had to be a reasonable thickness as once again I'm putting my trademark stiffening screen mesh. I have done this for several models including the Borei and also the most recent tooling of the Resolution. I take strip of the very stiff security screen mesh and embed it into the second layer of the mould. The silcon weaves it way through the holes in the mesh and stiffens the siliocn in an area in which you want a flat surface. I have found this ideal for missile decks. HWSNBN is not convinced but i have found it works for me.

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    First layer had a good amount of catalyst in the mix and so hardened up nice the next day. Once done I then mixed up a new batch of a similar amount and added it to the mould. Evenly pasting it over the master. I didnt add any more along the flange as this had plenty. Now I took the two strips of mesh, bent into an "L" shape using a magna bend from work and pressed them into the corner that runs along the side of the hull as it meets the board. Pressing this mesh down I made sure that the silicon was pushing through the holes in the mesh and mixing through. I then made sure that the rest of the siliocn covbered the mesh and the rest of the hull. I also took a mesh strip and added it over the top of the mould. Once again making sure that the silicon thoroughly covered the mesh and working hard to ensure that there are no airpockets creating cavities under the mesh. You don't want this. You take your time at this stage.

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    24 hours later the second layer with the embedded mesh was in place. It was quite rigid and set solid. Final layer would have thixo added to really thicken it up so I could them make a rough surface for the resin to key into. After the third layer another 24 hours until hard and a great rough surface was produced. I have sometimes found it hard to gauge the thickness of the overall surface. I have had molds come out with thin points that have caused the inner surface to weep a little. That sucks...

    After the third layer has been done I then carefully unscrewed the perimeter form work. Carefully cutting it away so that it doesn't pull the silicon off the mould around the edges as I'm pulling the wood work off.

    Once done you have the outline of the silicon mould. Included are the register cut outs. I added a few more by taking a knife and cutting a 'Vee' shape. I realised that the flange around the back took up alot of silicon I could have gotten away with using less in this area.. Oh well...

    Until next time.

    david h

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  • Davidh
    replied
    Oh Crap...


    Couldn't you guys point that out to me before I started doing all the moulds. I've only been poring over these pics for the last couple of months. Then again all the drawings show an angled surface intersection with the middle plane / flap. Yes I am about two weeks ahead of what I'm writing.

    After final assembly and checking the fitting of all parts, the overall symmetry of the hull and the twin booms at the back. I then turned towards creating the moulding box form which to create the two hull moulds, top and bottom. This leads into the most tedious and tiring part of the whole exercise. Creating the hull moulds. This is a lot of work and takes up a fair amount of material. My moulding box is simply made out of particle board. Sometimes this is found on the side of the F3 Freeway I drive everyday on the way to work, however this year I have ripped out a kitchen because we are extending the house upstairs and suddenly I have heaps of Cupboard bench tops and large panels to cut up. I measured out two long sides making them about 100mm high and just over a meter long. Two of those followed by two ends about 200 mm wide and 100 high. These would be screwed together with some self tappers and then the top would be cut out. This would be as the sides just over a meter long and 100mm up. I marked a line down the centre of this piece and then place the master over the top. Screwed it down to the top of the basic frame that I had set up.

    Earlier I had cut up some strip particle board, a curve for the front and shorter flat section for the back. These pieces will be screwed down about 10-15mm around the perimeter of the master as it sits in the cutout. They are to limit the distance that the silicon flows and ensure a precise perimeter. I also glue in some small blocks at intervals in order to create registering points along the edge of the silicon mould.

    I then carefully made a rough outline of the overall shape of the master and revised it a couple of times. Then when I was happy with the profile I then drilled some large diameter holes around the edge of the shape.

    Once done I then took out my jigsaw. I don't use this thing very often however when needed it's good and does short work of the profile needing out. As can be seen from the images I did this in sections. I though that the end result produced a reasonably snug fit. Then its simply a case of filing down areas here and there to get an even fit where the model sits level at the equator. Once doen I go over it with the clay and seal the edges and gaps between the board and the sides of the model.
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  • JHapprich
    replied
    One can still cut off the angled edges with a thin blade and glue them to the hull
    Last edited by JHapprich; 07-11-2018, 04:02 PM.

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  • Scott T
    replied
    This photo from earlier in the post makes it look like the dive plane had straight sides instead of angled sides.
    Last edited by Scott T; 07-10-2018, 12:17 PM.

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  • Davidh
    replied
    Hello all,

    After creating the molds for the sail and then producing the first sides, I also set up the top of the sail. This is the first time i have moulded a part made from Renshape. Following the same procedures as the sides I poured the silicon into a particle board mold box. Because the top of the fin is very shallow , the mold doesn't need much silicon. They silicon part gets all the detail out of the Renshape master and as a result the glass layup to produce the part also has a fantastic level of detail. Very happy. In the last photo, the middle part is the final layup.

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    I am at a stage where I am close to finishing up the hull and then proceed to develop the mould box required for the Silicon, Glass and egg crate layup. However before hand I have spent a couple of hours
    just going over the overall hull checking imperfections, sanding and giving tiny amounts of filler where needed. Eyeballing the rear end and making the stern symmetrical. I then spent time just fitting the stern appendages and once more checking for fit and integration. I took time to check alignment of the stern planes and the brass rod fit through either sides of the hull.

    I then spent time filling and sanding the inner flap /middle plane in between the two shafts. I sanded a subtle flat section at either end of the straight section that mounts the flap. This has allowed for the
    swing of the flap up and down ensuring that the edges don't pinch at the move halfway either up or down. I then sanded around the area where this mounts, making sure that the hinged area is square
    relative to the booms as they stick out.

    I worked over the rear hull, going to gradually smoother wet n dry to get the smoothest possible surface before hitting it with several coats of Grey primer.

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  • Davidh
    replied
    Thanks David and Jorg,

    Jorg, What!, Germany 2-0 loss to Korea. Whats happening!?

    Thanks for the comments guys. I have gone over and had a look at lots of pics of Russian rear ends. (Subs that is) Yep you can see the stern planes are just subtly lower on some boats.

    I am at the stage of development that I have to make a decision to finalise designs. You get to a point where you just have to go ahead and make the decision to proceed with the tooling stage. I reached that a couple of months ago as I started creating the silicon moulds for all the appendage parts. I have spent so much time especially at the stern and I'm now at the point where the design is at a stage I am happy with in regards to the twin boom arrangement. I'm pretty much done here. I will soon be getting the mould boards fabricated and ready to go.

    So I poured the silicon for one side of the sail and waited for it to set. I then pulled that off the base after unscrewing the sides and end boards. This mould came out really well and all I needed now was to brush down a layer of gel coat and then a layer of light weave. The photos below show pretty much the whole process for the other side. Very happy with the result. The silicon recreates every detail.

    With every boat that I build I colour code the silicon appendage moulds. Then they all go into a series of boxes for whenever they need to be called upon. This means quick recognition. I didnt have a new pigment colour to work with and the colour I wanted for some reason was really expensive, so I decided to simply mix green, blue and orange that I had from my previous jobs, together to get this nice beige colour.

    After completing both moulds, I made the first laid up parts to create the two side parts to make the fin/sail. I will then start on the development of the top of the fin.


    Now it really reminds me of Cheesecake...

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  • JHapprich
    replied
    Types having both the horizontal planes and the prop shaft centric: Prj. 705(K) / Alfa, Prj. 671(RT,RTM,RTMK) / Victor, Prj. 685 / Mike, Prj. 945(A) / Sierra, Prj. 971 / Akula

    Types having the prop shaft(s) below centric planes : Prj. 667(A) / Yankee, Prj. 667B(BD,BDR,BDRM) / Delta, Prj. 670(M) / Charlie

    661 Antchar is the only nuclear type having the horizontal planes below centric shafts that i know of.
    But this kit is something i wished for a looong
    time and following its way towards completion is quite inspiring to me to finish some of my own projects at the moment! So It isnt THAT important whether the planes are high or low in my case.

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  • He Who Shall Not Be Named
    replied
    In an attempt to demonstrate the Soviet designers (no matter the bureau of record) pragmatic approach of how to eliminate yokes to clear a propeller shaft are the below examples:

    An early artist rendering (I assume a Western source) of the high horizontal surfaces on the only Soviet boat of the MIKE class. A Rubin design.


    Though a Rubin design, not Malachite as is the PAPA, this domestic variant of the KILO CLASS clearly shows the above-centerline horizontal stabilizers with attached stern planes, well above the propeller shaft.



    The Dave Manley 1/96 KILO model showing to good advantage the above shaft location of the horizontal surfaces



    ... and again on the Trumpeter 1/144 kit. This model representing the export version of the KILO.




    David
    Last edited by He Who Shall Not Be Named; 06-22-2018, 12:46 PM.

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  • Davidh
    replied
    Thanks David and Jorg,

    I have to admit I haven't noticed about the stern planes being either above or below the axis line of the stern planes. I have had a look at photos of various soviet boats and have had a hard time noticing it. If their stern planes are off centre It can't be by much? I haven't noticed on drawings, not that they are dockyard and official drawings that I have access to, I don't. I also haven't seen this translated on models, (once again not dockyard models) Although I can certainly see this on the stern detail of a boat like the Yankees and Deltas.

    I am happy with the stern set up of my Papa. The stern area is really the last remaining area to do some serious work on. I have still to keep developing the stern middle horizontal plane (flap) I will slowly work my way through that, I am probably not going to shift the horizontal plane fillets up or down a few mm.

    Thanks for the encouragement.

    I have turned my attention to the fin. I have sanded and smoothed it as much as I can and have decided that I really can't add to much more detail to the two side pieces. I unscrewed the two halves from each other and filled in the screw holes that I originally drilled diagonally into the bottom to join them together to ensure accuracy. After this i simply sanded back to align with the edges.

    I then got small particle board pieces to make the mould box to fabricate the silicon mould. Drilling holes through the bottom to hold one side of the fin half to the base and then carefully making sure that the drilled holes going up into the underside of the fin and not out through the good side. I screwed down the sail really tightly so that silicon wouldn't seep under the fin piece.

    Once the fin piece was secure I could then drill and screw in the sides to make the box. Once again I took some clay and pressed it into the sides of the box in order to seal any areas where there were gaps. Once this was done I could pour the silicon.

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    I have also put detail into the top of the fin. Sanding a profile that carefully follows the outline of the top of the fin pieces allowed me then to mark the panels and door detail on the top. Renshape is fantastic for this.The top of the fin is a very shallow profile. This will require a thin Gelcoat layer and a thin weave layer also.

    Enough for now..

    David H

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  • He Who Shall Not Be Named
    replied
    Originally posted by JHapprich
    Hi David! Great progress on the model, but there is something i recognized taking a closer look at the stern horizontal planes and stabelizers. Correct me if im wrong. There is that one beautiful shot in your first post showing then-K-162 under construction and the stabelizers, planes and the small aft flap do NOT line up with the middle/centre of the hull but are aligned below. This is a very common design of soviet submarines of the 2nd generation, e.g. the plane/shaft configuration of the Yankee and the following Delta-class. Practical issue, building the model you would not have to design a complicated control mechanism for those planes but might use a simple straight rod. No need to build around the propeller shaft. Something i had to learn during construction of my Silent Hunter 3d models and my Delta II SSBN.

    Jörg
    I concur. Other designs placing the stern plane operating shafts above the shaft(s). KILO and MIKE come to mind.

    David

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  • gantu
    replied
    Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.


    Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.


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  • gantu
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